From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.ciao.gmane.io!not-for-mail From: Dmitry Gutov Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: [ELPA] New package: transient Date: Sun, 3 May 2020 20:04:38 +0300 Message-ID: <18096f9a-c617-f37b-cdaa-1a6198db2e1c@yandex.ru> References: <87368npxw4.fsf@bernoul.li> <87v9ljo5d0.fsf@bernoul.li> <87ftcnxu5m.fsf@bernoul.li> <83y2qezlpd.fsf@gnu.org> <83tv12zjx1.fsf@gnu.org> <20200429101755.GF24737@tuxteam.de> <838sicw4do.fsf@gnu.org> <83zhaqu89z.fsf@gnu.org> <83sggiu2p9.fsf@gnu.org> <83r1w2s9wi.fsf@gnu.org> <83v9leqmss.fsf@gnu.org> <83zhapoz63.fsf@gnu.org> <0a13f7e1-61c7-1e78-22bc-a27c15c269e7@yandex.ru> <83h7wxotix.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="ciao.gmane.io:159.69.161.202"; logging-data="117589"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.7.0 Cc: tomas@tuxteam.de, emacs-devel@gnu.org, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, rms@gnu.org To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sun May 03 19:05:17 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1jVI3I-000UTh-Fk for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sun, 03 May 2020 19:05:16 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:33974 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jVI3H-0006ku-HS for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sun, 03 May 2020 13:05:15 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:44142) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jVI2n-0006Kg-L1 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 03 May 2020 13:04:45 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-wm1-x334.google.com ([2a00:1450:4864:20::334]:39139) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jVI2m-0007Gl-K7; Sun, 03 May 2020 13:04:45 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-wm1-x334.google.com with SMTP id y24so6100537wma.4; Sun, 03 May 2020 10:04:43 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=sender:subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id:date:user-agent :mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language:content-transfer-encoding; bh=vyenh06dqstVvZB0uWX3d+qu9yc9XqtZMcf/jYwWiNI=; b=ZS+/fe8jp5DmjfbXjqWoiiilyOSAJI4rIyadBO3WeCTPPxpeUe/5aPHqKAqkv0csro ajdDv6ie+2v17SDyxQHKhja+X+htQVe2jgjLa3Bcavfx+VkPWKjyTmDqytzAaqHRVCLO LEpjo4DDF6SZQ8wchfo8Gmh9WtodFEftZtEYD9TFsWmH8tQGNK62xpHPlOoLmEvgu0iw aSxLp6cuDFLR/nJk0plxKiTDOo+aRymXjLaxaEpi6n+QOxXy9zmpCpG7r7ry7k0hKBvN t7z/ykRmU4WuW0yfet16N4TsRHvvsf5BRW8T38EXuFLT7vCYW4/Uvm29gt6ZwWJVXhUh tqlA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:sender:subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id :date:user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language :content-transfer-encoding; bh=vyenh06dqstVvZB0uWX3d+qu9yc9XqtZMcf/jYwWiNI=; b=gkVMlwZTte0DCyBlBlbMBAF7emU/TkyT9b/KwCjbGQwHqEp4rtWoK2+Ifl8FlfaZ4w ZKomPilSg7oX0NqJjqos5PYYohwZn1i8l4cSPFvqhCqFauao5UflHJBZBlOCByk+fEmQ Ps5vzDTXVj4LswtkXnKD8Knw9MQfnTlSdwVV1DBR4neB7yBhafbMlZwFXI/mbCE3MwSn Jo76Mt2PqM4nUahclTgtcg/mJst5xpiY+RmYMzWtVXMn+rEpGCHuq7sPr4wP/p2+3NSb wC9FyyobMs9WnUuVdj8ysNj4xfwPnnNYM5D9Gl8TtVdr1XdsjPyjotwfze1GWiV9cIMV E4GA== X-Gm-Message-State: AGi0PuZcUS7Gyu95g4gmXCAwbJotMRVU3jh9PZJoz0gV94z4NpYn3W0R GPQZR9RMkvIhANv5WBsOi+3UaNOu X-Google-Smtp-Source: APiQypLKbpQU1tM9R2ImWI3XZTLMJDqxp4gnQ3FFrJvFgzWQuJRPLcmNeDfSBAnkbmS7QNT8D+oCQQ== X-Received: by 2002:a1c:ba56:: with SMTP id k83mr9927038wmf.1.1588525481976; Sun, 03 May 2020 10:04:41 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from [192.168.0.3] ([66.205.73.129]) by smtp.googlemail.com with ESMTPSA id d27sm13653687wra.30.2020.05.03.10.04.40 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Sun, 03 May 2020 10:04:41 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <83h7wxotix.fsf@gnu.org> Content-Language: en-US Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2a00:1450:4864:20::334; envelope-from=raaahh@gmail.com; helo=mail-wm1-x334.google.com X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: No matching host in p0f cache. That's all we know. X-Spam_score_int: -17 X-Spam_score: -1.8 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.8 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN=0.001, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.249, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=_AUTOLEARN X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:248722 Archived-At: On 03.05.2020 19:47, Eli Zaretskii wrote: > Not the manual, the documentation commands in general. They don't > only use the manual. The apropos command has pretty much the same problem with filtering and ordering. Only more difficult, since it offers more matches. Having function names more consistency named would help with it too. Personal note: I don't like it's output. It's noisy and hard to scan visually. But that has little bearing on the argument. > And I don't see what's wrong with that. I saw what I thought was the > wrong tool for the job, so I suggested to use a better tool. Why do I > have to "acknowledge" a problem in using a wrong tool, instead of > pointing out that it's wrong? Why is it "reasonable" to used the > wrong tool and expect that it produces optimal results? It isn't. Calling a tool that many people have been employing for years "inadequate" is mildly insulting and dismissive of others' experience. Even if I start using apropos and the manual more, I will continue using code completion and describe-xxx commands nevertheless, and better naming would still help there.