From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: David Reitter Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Emacs 23 Mac port Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2010 12:00:47 -0500 Message-ID: <17C6D301-2E7F-4A12-9016-985E4706E3B6@gmail.com> References: <2282B3B4-D844-4E26-BB94-9F79EEA2E847@gmail.com> <4CE058E8.9010606@gmail.com> <87d3q6d305.fsf@lifelogs.com> <87mxp98ikq.fsf@lifelogs.com> <87hbfg2e2g.fsf@lifelogs.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1082) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1290013719 8228 80.91.229.12 (17 Nov 2010 17:08:39 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2010 17:08:39 +0000 (UTC) To: Emacs-Devel devel Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Wed Nov 17 18:08:35 2010 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1PIlUo-0004VO-1x for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 17 Nov 2010 18:08:34 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:36535 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1PIlUn-0002EH-1u for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 17 Nov 2010 12:08:33 -0500 Original-Received: from [140.186.70.92] (port=44057 helo=eggs.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1PIlM6-0006qY-O2 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 17 Nov 2010 11:59:37 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1PIlM5-0006yc-6u for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 17 Nov 2010 11:59:34 -0500 Original-Received: from mail-vw0-f41.google.com ([209.85.212.41]:60530) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1PIlM5-0006yT-3h for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 17 Nov 2010 11:59:33 -0500 Original-Received: by vws10 with SMTP id 10so1109856vws.0 for ; Wed, 17 Nov 2010 08:59:31 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:content-type:mime-version :subject:from:in-reply-to:date:content-transfer-encoding:message-id :references:to:x-mailer; bh=UUguxFIEyRoo2MAp6SEdH5mxrHJ9c19isGJ4deOT9CE=; b=DwtzHP1m/pgGWQh4N7s22pcfVILGq/RYwQdRyfDDdnpHh9vm6o2ZYmDoszsZ2XHvkj xjTJyxuDELCWLg/hno9RhUMQA3dSdtWrO0VA6biqnmU8q+RVDq7Y9ttnIANWwdoYvtM5 BcXD4T58y1+8sRL/uv0BDjvVsob/daCg7lTDE= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=content-type:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to:x-mailer; b=Z1yBq/Am1taMluQYbjUqQq7vd9axhQOeNgkRCoW5UZ9Exrwez259goYx63ET81n1ar fTBFhpB8Hu8QAbeXCU2u0wiXZOHgZGij/iJLcY78qYJhnMEHr03p8imUdO9pV+8+f5yn jl6yGHcZJTAaAbc3B4DMyoBSYV5Y/KNaU6gXM= Original-Received: by 10.220.164.75 with SMTP id d11mr2162209vcy.95.1290013171658; Wed, 17 Nov 2010 08:59:31 -0800 (PST) Original-Received: from elin.psy.cmu.edu (ELIN.PSY.CMU.EDU [128.2.248.190]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id b26sm1074680vby.3.2010.11.17.08.59.29 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Wed, 17 Nov 2010 08:59:29 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <87hbfg2e2g.fsf@lifelogs.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1082) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:132787 Archived-At: On Nov 17, 2010, at 9:57 AM, Ted Zlatanov wrote: >=20 > Right, but here we have posts saying your Mac port is much better than > the NS port. We should at least consider what's different, how the NS > port can be improved, and if your Mac port should be reconsidered as = the > main Mac OS X port. So I asked about the Carbon support because that > was a concern last time; your response and opinion are, as always, > greatly appreciated. Yes, please consider this. I'm not against it, but I'd like to suggest some mitigation w.r.t. four = points: 1. Maintainability: NS/Cocoa is cleaner code. It's a cleaner, more = modern API. That's one reason why I like the NS port. 2. GNUStep support. This might increase the chances of having more = people work on it. 3. The existing, very substantial investment in code specific to the NS = port (third party). The 22/Carbon to 23/NS switchover was a major, = major shift, with a substantial amount of time being invested in writing = C-level and Lisp-level functions. It is possible that a lot of this = (e.g., printing, toolbar customization) can be ported easily to the = 24/Appkit, but we don't know that. 4. Lack of integration in Bzr/Git. Why is this not a branch in the = repository? Especially point 3 is my major concern. I'd like to support the many = users of this code. A switch to the Appkit port may require such = substantial extra work, for little benefit. There are arguments in favor of the Appkit port, both technically, but = also by way of YM supporting and developing it very actively.