From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Jean-Christophe Helary Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Translating Emacs manuals is of strategic importance Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2024 16:10:53 +0000 Message-ID: <176BDBB9-4751-4B8C-8207-0FB705F6E312@traductaire-libre.org> References: <877ckqa6m5.fsf@yahoo.com> <8734vda9kz.fsf@yahoo.com> <5EC9A02F-DB34-48B6-BD2D-CB9E89A385D0@traductaire-libre.org> <83r0iwuek9.fsf@gnu.org> <837cknvkrx.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="5225"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: Stefan Kangas , =?utf-8?Q?Vincent_Bela=C3=AFche?= , emacs-devel@gnu.org, rms@gnu.org To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Fri Jan 05 17:34:48 2024 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1rLn9j-0000wr-Th for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Fri, 05 Jan 2024 17:34:48 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1rLn91-0001yl-Gc; Fri, 05 Jan 2024 11:34:03 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1rLmmv-0001TC-FJ for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 05 Jan 2024 11:11:13 -0500 Original-Received: from mail-4018.proton.ch ([185.70.40.18]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1rLmms-0005rz-AD for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 05 Jan 2024 11:11:13 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=traductaire-libre.org; s=protonmail; t=1704471067; x=1704730267; bh=JiARjUPjYZm2/g/76/3x4IgJU/vjjzyj66j1LQYN7F0=; h=Date:To:From:Cc:Subject:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:References: Feedback-ID:From:To:Cc:Date:Subject:Reply-To:Feedback-ID: Message-ID:BIMI-Selector; b=dOO/7ujjwiOY5/7VZZlouFLUUq34O5N5O0irS2N0l+NWEqKkhvb9xec/hQ+B0tP9y gaQhgwWVBLqkTT/sTFAcCVa+G5gcxypdMNEVI1+ccUvf4e4nPKOpys5+XFY0Ppbt23 UxyLBB2UCLRqhprdfijyczOm4GuVpdT1/dKX9sYf9B6g/O48W2H+wesrQDHAuio/Yv Xt/cou4dLPS63VWS6HE+htPIebmT2xNPQxcU6kTlfEliEaJDWPihra2GrWXxeHPqyx 1qZZd5EfDNNi9sgb7xH7ThxUCkz2BuEoNS9zNvXa72B2cG0NAdSetj+n6r4eWgaJTn Qk3yAS5oJKjZQ== In-Reply-To: <837cknvkrx.fsf@gnu.org> Feedback-ID: 92162971:user:proton Received-SPF: pass client-ip=185.70.40.18; envelope-from=jean.christophe.helary@traductaire-libre.org; helo=mail-4018.proton.ch X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H5=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-Mailman-Approved-At: Fri, 05 Jan 2024 11:34:01 -0500 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:314577 Archived-At: > On Jan 6, 2024, at 0:53, Eli Zaretskii wrote: >>> It is unreasonable >>> to expect the Emacs project to solve problems that are common to all >>> the GNU projects, and accuse us of lack of interest because those >>> problems are not yet solved satisfactorily. >>=20 >> I=E2=80=99m not sure where that comes from. >=20 > It comes from your apparent expectations that we solve the non-trivial > issues on our own and "yesterday", when all we have is a single > translation of a single manual. I don=E2=80=99t have any expectations. All this weird discussion is taking= =20 place because I was trying to understand what you did not like about PO=20 while you (seemingly) were thinking I was trying to push PO down=20 somebody=E2=80=99s throat. Can we please move on? > It's too early to raise complaints about this. I have no complaint about anything. I proposed things based on my=20 experience. You refused them because they don=E2=80=99t fit your idea of an= =20 ideal workflow in Emacs. And that=E2=80=99s OK. You=E2=80=99re the maintain= er and you=20 have a view of the project that I will never be able to have. I am fine=20 with your decisions. >>> See above: the existing communities don't need to solve the problems >>> that are central to Emacs in this area, they don't even come close. >>=20 >> I=E2=80=99m still not sure how documentation translation is so much hard= er to >> handle for Emacs than for other projects. Texi is just another plain tex= t >> format that has nothing special to it. >=20 > I wasn't talking about the manuals. But even for the manuals there > are some issues that need to be considered. For example: what do we > do with the info/dir file for these translated manuals? what should be > @dircategory for them -- should it be a separate category, like > "Translated manuals", or should it be the same as in the original > English manuals? Can we talk about that?