From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Aidan Kehoe Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: GTK file selector Date: Sat, 17 Dec 2005 23:02:01 +0100 Message-ID: <17316.35545.44735.66533@parhasard.net> References: <1134552456.439fe58850f31@imp5-g19.free.fr> <878xuma53q.fsf@jurta.org> <17313.37186.344268.487103@parhasard.net> <87d5jxsgib.fsf@jurta.org> <17314.42778.220813.47226@parhasard.net> <17315.7877.155144.973236@kahikatea.snap.net.nz> <85irtoadgf.fsf@lola.goethe.zz> NNTP-Posting-Host: main.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1134856978 23355 80.91.229.2 (17 Dec 2005 22:02:58 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 17 Dec 2005 22:02:58 +0000 (UTC) Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sat Dec 17 23:02:51 2005 Return-path: Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by ciao.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Enk8D-0000t9-Hi for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 17 Dec 2005 23:02:21 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Enk8y-00069H-Ko for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 17 Dec 2005 17:03:08 -0500 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1Enk8j-00067Q-SC for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 17 Dec 2005 17:02:53 -0500 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1Enk8i-00066Q-NT for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 17 Dec 2005 17:02:53 -0500 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Enk8i-00066M-Jy for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 17 Dec 2005 17:02:52 -0500 Original-Received: from [66.111.49.30] (helo=icarus.asclepian.ie) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1EnkBM-0001Qn-Nt for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 17 Dec 2005 17:05:37 -0500 Original-Received: by icarus.asclepian.ie (Postfix, from userid 1003) id 263068008E; Sat, 17 Dec 2005 22:02:01 +0000 (GMT) Original-To: emacs-devel@gnu.org In-Reply-To: <85irtoadgf.fsf@lola.goethe.zz> X-Mailer: VM 7.17 under 21.4 (patch 17) "Jumbo Shrimp" XEmacs Lucid X-Echelon-distraction: NSA filofax squib Ceridian Satellite imagery DSNET2 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:47965 Archived-At: I sent the below to Juri alone, and it bounced. To my surprise--strategie= s of =EC=B9=9C=EC=95=A0=ED=95=98=EB=8A=94 =EC=A7=80=EB=8F=84=EC=9E=90 being= criticised on emacs-devel? what?--people seem to want to discuss the matter further here, so I=E2=80=99m sending it on. =20 Ar an s=C3=A9=C3=BA l=C3=A1 d=C3=A9ag de m=C3=AD na Nollaig, scr=C3=ADob= h Juri Linkov:=20 > > Do you not understand what the GTK2 people did? They didn=E2=80=99t = remove > > features, it=E2=80=99s just as possible to use the new dialog box in= the same > > way as the old. >=20 > The filename entry field (with available TAB completion like in Emacs)= was > a very useful feature. Neither C-l nor a small text box that appears > after starting typing is an acceptable replacement. What the Gnome people have implemented is an acceptable replacement; it gives the same functionality as the old but without its confusing feature= s. If you don=E2=80=99t accept that, then I=E2=80=99ve no confidence that yo= u=E2=80=99ve ever used the new file selection dialog.=20 > > And yes, making GNU Emacs behave more like a Win32 app, like Notepad= , > > _will_ make na=C3=AFve users happy. Look at the success of CUA-mode. >=20 > CUA-mode doesn't disable useful Emacs features. What on Earth gave you the idea that I suggested disabling useful feature= s? > > Hang round with Win32 users looking for an advanced editor, and they= =E2=80=99ll > > go for Notepad++ long before GNU Emacs, because all their habits fro= m > > Notepad work in Notepad++, and not in emacs. >=20 > Notepad++ is not easier to use for naive users than Emacs. It=E2=80=99s much easier to use for a na=C3=AFve Win32 user than is any e= macs, and in 2005 the number of users who come to Emacs before encountering Win32 and gaining some experience is infinitesimally small compared to the number w= ith previous Win32 experience.=20 > > Emacs is more featureful, but not enough to overcome the pain of fin= ding > > out what CUA-mode is >=20 > The top-level menu item in the Options menu that enables CUA-mode > and its tooltip are self-descriptive enough. I disagree.=20 > > and doing all the other donkey-work to have the editor behave like w= hat > > they=E2=80=99re used to. >=20 > Experts can do this easily anyway. And an editor that makes it unnecessary is still more attractive than one where it must be done.=20 > > They abandon it because of stagnant development, the design and > > implementation clusterfuck that is Mule from the perspective of Euro= pean > > language users (search for =C3=B6 not working again!) >=20 > Not in the unicode-2 branch. And? Emacs Multi-TTY has been stable for years, and there=E2=80=99s no si= gn of it being integrated. Unicode-2 isn=E2=80=99t even stable yet.=20 > > and minimal consideration for GUI users in this age of 17" > > screens. Among other reasons. > > > > Eclipse, VIM or Notepad++ seem to be what most of the power users I > > know who chose an advanced editor recently are using. >=20 > I don't think VIM belongs to the category of Notepad-like editors. And? I do know some Unix power-users.=20 --=20 I AM IN JAIL AND ALLOWED SEND ONLY ONE CABLE SINCE WAS ARRESTED WHILE MEASURING FIFTEEN FOOT WALL OUTSIDE PALACE AND HAVE JUST FINISHED COUNTIN= G THIRTY EIGHT THOUSAND FIVE HUNDERED TWENTY TWO NAMES WHOS WHO IN MIDEAST.