From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.ciao.gmane.io!not-for-mail From: martin rudalics Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: GNU Emacs raison d'etre Date: Mon, 18 May 2020 10:32:49 +0200 Message-ID: <1701f0b1-a481-bb45-08b8-99da4a6139fc@gmx.at> References: <5230692c-c665-a330-7a12-e59fa25d97dd@gmail.com> <87h7wghxdz.fsf@osv.gnss.ru> <87eerkgey1.fsf@osv.gnss.ru> <112aecd7-8165-6cae-ef69-08d14d843841@yandex.ru> <5d158a63-7173-424c-9d9f-ce7856f1eae7@default> <4bb36686-34e7-4ac8-898c-74e254902349@default> <29f65907-affb-481e-82f3-62522a766f69@default> <83sgfybn22.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="ciao.gmane.io:159.69.161.202"; logging-data="97045"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: Jean-Christophe Helary , Richard Stallman , =?UTF-8?Q?Andreas_R=c3=b6hler?= , Emacs developers , Karl Fogel , homeros.misasa@gmail.com, tkk@misasa.okayama-u.ac.jp, Sergey Organov , Stefan Kangas , dgutov@yandex.ru, Eli Zaretskii To: Drew Adams , Arthur Miller , Stefan Monnier Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Mon May 18 10:36:19 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1jabFz-000P8X-DU for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Mon, 18 May 2020 10:36:19 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:47066 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jabFy-0007gv-9n for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Mon, 18 May 2020 04:36:18 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:46084) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jabD5-00049g-K7 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 18 May 2020 04:33:19 -0400 Original-Received: from mout.gmx.net ([212.227.17.20]:45249) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jabD4-0005tJ-A6; Mon, 18 May 2020 04:33:19 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=gmx.net; s=badeba3b8450; t=1589790773; bh=cEypWOlk/V68wMpcxhm27Kc33RVItKgFyGIZycBZGwM=; h=X-UI-Sender-Class:Subject:To:Cc:References:From:Date:In-Reply-To; b=MSIHzyLJTKDT7rn8iVzvH+TAmFQPMA8yIkmstDJlOK19Qxj8RE3GiKtCL4jlMGnUM Sx845R8PYBkqcVxsV9vAH6amentroEOM23bDgo/KQbuU/Ou8I9MoporZkvxV0a1jCF abQ0DgQqHpQdvw8FBIVtZF/2U9JWZUu+3Luwny4Q= X-UI-Sender-Class: 01bb95c1-4bf8-414a-932a-4f6e2808ef9c Original-Received: from [192.168.1.101] ([212.95.5.147]) by mail.gmx.com (mrgmx105 [212.227.17.168]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 1MV67y-1jSK0o39Dq-00S6Kz; Mon, 18 May 2020 10:32:52 +0200 In-Reply-To: Content-Language: en-US X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:/Bjb832nUv6K2ZlLuUTgIL2iYg63Pv/j3EAgUAyzIgMtyhdqfPK dnWvCKbJ/lgbakIS6wQ8a58LQWMTvHcgrDbS7R/eSFnmBKlxTwO2h9GP3wKtJzOgDvNJlbm fi3SxjrGw95I2o5fBynbIT5vppQXn7wg3dElQfciwMRScRN359FyO1JkhiKT8a0LjfeO4xm 0D3Pjq9KN9pLZT+Jg4OHw== X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:d8zzef7ckZI=:7FZ5w/iEZUapRsYtn/V7l2 hkObqmn9c1yQ1g72CwZQo+4mKWcXd1T8KRLUS+tYpUz9T6paHhroJqvv+SyFVt7frjf25jkEk lrydQxh4yd7aWp4lCWIi7mcinN6VwI3MwipEXgZ1Zya0yTwogEroTr/80TerkVJhEi/SJxVgh ObOi6lWcL685tuTiDBxg32ekeLchkQ+6AcU8/e/Yxuw70gHUTMhlHjkturk2kyz6Z8T0pgo4y ipjRLVM9Hv9p420FYhEDl3BNtE1Gx54Be7P6yW4mAutsb0zArMnEyVG6JFdcyH+C4U4xMG/i0 64lLGYzuJ5NK5Sk+q4VTb5Wzbxryot792vqfKWf40t6YYaDqVCsWuB705JEhmsIQ0U81rG29Y ISu/LrkStDZ2YGADRn17mLss/aauNM+0J4AZPkzDJSmpDoABa+7Zy3lxzsXxGXqREhGTgrxnf yCgYzfNHluyHnqqR2NCzr05fs027ws+Hlzjd3JIUQduFfhJZINWZf3jkNjRWTq/582FOSsKio PNHfx/WPtTCtNkzqRJiGQxipLiE1edBsJXC9n8FWpCbt1EQoI2tUNYTMvoN+TFuyNYzQV5i6r wFWkrTFD4aJvM+Abi3JMfD/8Qrb4mNPDQXbmvb/0bQjXvUTFYDGUcgAWGSnxS2XDGmiq2m4ZL kyLK64KyT1XJpN6ExgdvtvO1xDEHWpt/6twfmQF6cS0PMKTvrYMmq8y+1YsQK77Hv/2eCZIV4 pR5jby/o7ZEFOl6Mpk5hDZn36fi3W6PtS7On4uhY1wTQuQPIGsEWJX22a7+gov6N2hQtJvFK Received-SPF: pass client-ip=212.227.17.20; envelope-from=rudalics@gmx.at; helo=mout.gmx.net X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: First seen = 2020/05/18 04:05:21 X-ACL-Warn: Detected OS = Linux 3.11 and newer X-Spam_score_int: -25 X-Spam_score: -2.6 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.6 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=_AUTOLEARN X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:250717 Archived-At: > 1. It's trivial to move a minibuffer-only frame > off screen (and bring it back on screen). Not in my experience. Not even for arbitrary frames. > 2. Alternatively, it's possible to make a frame > invisible (and visible again). > > (modify-frame-parameters 1on1-minibuffer-frame > '((alpha . 0))) > (modify-frame-parameters 1on1-minibuffer-frame > '((alpha . 100))) Only on systems that do support that. > Presumably, frame parameter `visibility' would > also be usable for this, but it doesn't seem > to have an effect on a minibuffer-only frame, > at least on MS Windows. Same with parameter > `minibuffer-exit', and same with functions > `make-frame-(in)visible'. Dunno whether those > are just bugs. On every GUI I've seen so far (make-frame-invisible (window-frame (minibuffer-window))) works as intended. I call it thousands of times daily whenever a minibuffer becomes empty. > As I said, my impression is > that use of minibuffer frames doesn't get > tested much when features are introduced.] I use a minibuffer child frame all the time. It is invisible whenever I don't need it, promptly shows up on any window where I want to interact with it and resizes just like any normal minibuffer window. I do not use the echo area for ElDoc though and occasionally the echo area noisily pops up to tell me that I'm at the beginning or end of a buffer. I've been told that I have to live with the latter. In either case I can assure you that minibuffer frames are tested by me intensively whenever features are introduced. martin