From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "grischka" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Scrollbar thumbs Date: Tue, 3 Nov 2009 01:32:08 +0100 Message-ID: <16F8B7E14CB049B9A860B703B0776C3F@editkapc> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1257208616 3269 80.91.229.12 (3 Nov 2009 00:36:56 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 3 Nov 2009 00:36:56 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: "Stefan Monnier" Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue Nov 03 01:36:49 2009 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1N57OC-0005Wk-I2 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 03 Nov 2009 01:36:48 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:41672 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1N57OB-0007I8-KO for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 02 Nov 2009 19:36:47 -0500 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1N57O5-0007HF-1m for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 02 Nov 2009 19:36:41 -0500 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1N57O0-0007FI-TR for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 02 Nov 2009 19:36:40 -0500 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=51572 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1N57O0-0007FA-Ql for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 02 Nov 2009 19:36:36 -0500 Original-Received: from mail.gmx.net ([213.165.64.20]:45442) by monty-python.gnu.org with smtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1N57O0-0002OE-77 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 02 Nov 2009 19:36:36 -0500 Original-Received: (qmail invoked by alias); 03 Nov 2009 00:36:31 -0000 Original-Received: from p5B0C6AF5.dip.t-dialin.net (EHLO editkapc) [91.12.106.245] by mail.gmx.net (mp006) with SMTP; 03 Nov 2009 01:36:31 +0100 X-Authenticated: #18588216 X-Provags-ID: V01U2FsdGVkX18IawZBei0IF0UkZNEDIBWWmgIxLkJmNzoC27WgHs quJ5xnpWPMtvR7 In-Reply-To: X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Windows Mail 6.0.6000.16480 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.0.6000.16545 X-Y-GMX-Trusted: 0 X-FuHaFi: 0.74 X-detected-operating-system: by monty-python.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:116591 Archived-At: >> I guess it is just that these GUI toolkit people usually are trained to >> deliver good looking and pixel-precise artwork and in consequence might have >> some difficulties to imagine how it can be "pretty much impossibe" for some >> editor to know how many lines it is actually displaying (or anyway that such >> editor would still want to use their scrollbars). > > No, sadly, it is really due to dogma: your above explanation would make > perfect sense, but in practice, even after showing them our problem, > they still insist that it would be wrong for them to remove the chunks > of code that enforce the "scrollbar metaphor" by preventing the client > from getting the events that indicate that the user wants to move the > thumb's bottom further down than the scrollbar's own bottom. I don't see any dogma beyond the dogma of consistent design which is not something a toolkit designer can be blamed for. Also by saying "our problem" you already realized that is your problem and not theirs. In a free world, why should they cripple their code just to save you from having to find the right solution within your own program. That would be two times wrong. --- grischka