From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Adam Porter Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: My resignation from Emacs development Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2024 23:35:35 -0600 Message-ID: <169c6564-4722-4338-a049-5f8f3ce69394@alphapapa.net> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="7743"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: acm@muc.de Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Fri Nov 22 06:36:36 2024 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1tEMLM-0001tA-09 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Fri, 22 Nov 2024 06:36:36 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1tEMKW-00066C-Ee; 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List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:325568 Archived-At: Dear Alan, I have not corresponded with you before, but as a user and contributor myself, I appreciate your contributions to Emacs. Now, I usually steer clear of threads like these; I see little benefit to taking sides or passing judgment on those who are implicated. Were you simply saying farewell, I'd be glad to wish you the same, and leave it at that. But I can't, in good conscience, stand by and say nothing after your comments like this: > This "be nice to everybody no matter what they do" and "always > assume the best of everybody" creates the perfect atmosphere for a > monster to flourish in. Stefan is such a monster; not all the time, > not even most of the time, but in doing the things detailed above, > and other things, I don't understand why you are defending him. > > I've had continual trouble over the last ~20 years with what Stefan > has done, and how he's done it. Nobody else even comes close. As I > said, this is the root cause of why I'm leaving the Emacs team. Most > of the time, he is extremely helpful and efficient at maintaining, > and I'm grateful for all the help he has given me over the years. As > I said, a Jekyll-and-Hyde character. These accusations are beyond unfair and unkind. You even followed it up immediately with: > I have not come anywhere near ad hominem. If calling someone a "monster" is not ad hominem, I don't know what is. As well, your other comments about Stefan M., including your list of historical grievances, are essentially a form of character assassination. I have watched as you have publicly impugned Stefan's motivation and character several times before; it was wrong then, and it is even more so now, as you essentially accuse him of being a bully-- ironic, since "bullying" seems like an apt characterization of your comments about him. > It is true that many forums degenerate into slanging matches which > repel decent posters. emacs-devel is the opposite extreme, sort of > touchy-feely where nobody's allowed to offend anybody else at all, > no matter what they do, why and how they do it. This is just as > unhealthy as the the continual abuse forums; it leads to the build > up of repressed resentment. I don't find that characterization of this mailing list to be accurate at all. There is infrequent, but consistently repellent content from certain participants; thankfully, it is usually not repaid in kind; occasionally it draws a tame chastisement. It's to be expected, when you consider the variety of backgrounds present, combined with strong personalities and enthusiastic participation. There are far, far worse forums to be found. As to participation, everyone is a volunteer here; everyone is free to contribute or not, as he sees fit. You should do what seems best to you, whether that means continuing to contribute, scaling back your contributions, or ceasing to contribute. If it is no longer enjoyable for you to contribute, for whatever reason, then you probably shouldn't, for your own sake. I would say that to anyone, including myself. At the same time, I would encourage you to reconsider the decision to cease contributing altogether, for your sake and others', as your contributions have been valuable to innumerable people; and as hobbies go, this is a pretty good one. And there's nothing wrong with taking a break. But it is not okay for you to blame Stefan for your decision to leave. As you know, in the past he served as the Emacs maintainer, and now he remains a prominent contributor, and a maintainer of some parts of Emacs, but not of the overall project. So if you can't abide some technical decisions that have been made by Stefan M., you ought to take them up with Eli, Andrea, and Stefan K. And if they disagree with you and won't overturn those decisions, and you decide to leave, you ought to ascribe that responsibility simply and honestly, not by publicly defaming Stefan M. like this. It does not behoove you, nor the GNU Emacs project, to act this way. Sincerely, Adam