From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Nick Roberts Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: English usage bug in bytecomp.el Date: Wed, 9 Mar 2005 00:45:43 +1300 Message-ID: <16941.36967.646660.525697@farnswood.snap.net.nz> References: <16941.26379.290951.460068@farnswood.snap.net.nz> NNTP-Posting-Host: main.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1110282628 30643 80.91.229.2 (8 Mar 2005 11:50:28 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 8 Mar 2005 11:50:28 +0000 (UTC) Cc: miles@gnu.org, Alan Mackenzie , snogglethorpe@gmail.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue Mar 08 12:50:27 2005 Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by ciao.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1D8dEC-0002QE-LS for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 08 Mar 2005 12:50:22 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1D8dSe-0003Op-Ts for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 08 Mar 2005 07:05:17 -0500 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1D8dRm-0003Lm-4Z for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 08 Mar 2005 07:04:22 -0500 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1D8dRk-0003Kv-4B for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 08 Mar 2005 07:04:20 -0500 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1D8dRj-0003KQ-PN for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 08 Mar 2005 07:04:19 -0500 Original-Received: from [202.37.101.8] (helo=viper.snap.net.nz) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1D8dB5-0002zm-J9; Tue, 08 Mar 2005 06:47:08 -0500 Original-Received: from farnswood.snap.net.nz (p227-tnt1.snap.net.nz [202.124.110.227]) by viper.snap.net.nz (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4739248F3A7; Wed, 9 Mar 2005 00:47:03 +1300 (NZDT) Original-Received: by farnswood.snap.net.nz (Postfix, from userid 501) id 442E762FBE; Tue, 8 Mar 2005 11:45:44 +0000 (GMT) Original-To: David Kastrup In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: VM 7.19 under Emacs 22.0.50.7 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org X-MailScanner-To: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:34322 X-Report-Spam: http://spam.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.devel:34322 > > > > I don't know if it's correct or not but I think it is effective use of > > English. > > "efficient" you mean probably . Let us just replace every "is not" > and "was not" and "has not" with "ain't". That is also efficient. This is a bit surreal! No, I mean effective as in "it conveys the meaning" which is what language is intended for, although it might not impress professors of English. If I had meant efficient, I would have said so. What is efficient English anyway? Using the minimum number of words/letters? > > I think its important to remember that English may not be the first > > language for many Emacs users. "`foo' is an obsolete function since > > 21.4" is concise: it tells the user that foo *is* obsolete and then > > that it became obsolete in version 21.4. He doesn't have to > > understand the many forms of past tense that English can have. > > We are not talking about whether it is impossible to make sense out of > what is written. But I don't see how the non-first language speaker > actively gains anything if we switch to a bastardized version of > English. We don't require the readers of the manual to write correct > English themselves, we just strive to be understandable even for > non-native speakers. But I don't see that the correct English usage > here would have any detrimental effects. If I remember correctly, "has been an obsolete function" is the perfect tense, and suggests a completed action i.e it has been obsolete but what is its status now. It has some ambiguity. Anyway, lets not delude ourselves, the international language is American English, perhaps it also sounds natural on that side of the Atlantic. Nick.