From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Phil Sainty Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Do shorthands break basic tooling (tags, grep, =?UTF-8?Q?etc=29=3F=20=28was=20Re=3A=20Shorthands=20have=20landed=20on=20?= =?UTF-8?Q?master=29?= Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2021 13:38:09 +1300 Message-ID: <16338bdc2497fc51c6fb6d54ab370bfb@webmail.orcon.net.nz> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="28410"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Orcon Webmail Cc: emacs-devel To: =?UTF-8?Q?Jo=C3=A3o_T=C3=A1vora?= Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Tue Sep 28 02:39:14 2021 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1mV19O-0007C2-9i for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Tue, 28 Sep 2021 02:39:14 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:44506 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mV19M-0006cs-3S for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Mon, 27 Sep 2021 20:39:12 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:46578) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mV18U-0005vT-0P for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 27 Sep 2021 20:38:18 -0400 Original-Received: from smtp-1.orcon.net.nz ([60.234.4.34]:36407) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mV18R-0001K3-TU for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 27 Sep 2021 20:38:17 -0400 Original-Received: from [10.253.37.70] (port=34844 helo=webmail.orcon.net.nz) by smtp-1.orcon.net.nz with esmtpa (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mV18M-0002Px-2x; Tue, 28 Sep 2021 13:38:10 +1300 Original-Received: from ip-203-94-48-127.kinect.net.nz ([203.94.48.127]) via [10.253.37.253] by webmail.orcon.net.nz with HTTP (HTTP/1.1 POST); Tue, 28 Sep 2021 13:38:09 +1300 X-Sender: psainty@orcon.net.nz X-GeoIP: -- Received-SPF: pass client-ip=60.234.4.34; envelope-from=psainty@orcon.net.nz; helo=smtp-1.orcon.net.nz X-Spam_score_int: -6 X-Spam_score: -0.7 X-Spam_bar: / X-Spam_report: (-0.7 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_40=-0.001, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:275636 Archived-At: This has probably been covered in earlier discussions (apologies for not being across those), but... Won't this break a ton of basic tooling for locating things, if the symbol in the file is not the actual symbol? Simplicity can be a *very* good thing, and knowing that what you see is in fact what you get is a benefit which shouldn't be undervalued, IMO. Name-spaces in other languages I've seen seem to come at a very significant cost, complicating the tooling and forcing a lot of things which could previously be take for granted to need changing (if even possible) so that they are reliant on new features which "understand" what's going on behind the scenes. Is whatever we're gaining actually worth the resulting obfuscation? Long names being "tedious" (quoting the new info manual) to read and write seems like an insufficient reason, IMHO. -Phil (who is no doubt WAY too late to the party)