From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Konstantin Kharlamov Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: [RFE] Migration to gitlab Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2019 14:16:36 +0300 Message-ID: <1552821396.21432.0@yandex.ru> References: <1552789070.5272.1@yandex.ru> <1552791707.5272.2@yandex.ru> <1552793646.5272.3@yandex.ru> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=koi8-r; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: blaine.gmane.org; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:195.159.176.226"; logging-data="73704"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@blaine.gmane.org" Cc: emacs-devel To: Tim Cross Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sun Mar 17 12:16:57 2019 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1h5Tmf-000J2G-NC for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 17 Mar 2019 12:16:53 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:54109 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1h5Tme-0001V2-KK for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 17 Mar 2019 07:16:52 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:39276) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1h5TmY-0001Us-Fi for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 17 Mar 2019 07:16:47 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1h5TmW-0000jl-TU for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 17 Mar 2019 07:16:46 -0400 Original-Received: from forward100j.mail.yandex.net ([2a02:6b8:0:801:2::100]:34140) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1h5TmV-0000h8-Vp for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 17 Mar 2019 07:16:44 -0400 Original-Received: from mxback16o.mail.yandex.net (mxback16o.mail.yandex.net [IPv6:2a02:6b8:0:1a2d::67]) by forward100j.mail.yandex.net (Yandex) with ESMTP id AF5B650E0E0D; Sun, 17 Mar 2019 14:16:38 +0300 (MSK) Original-Received: from smtp1j.mail.yandex.net (smtp1j.mail.yandex.net [2a02:6b8:0:801::ab]) by mxback16o.mail.yandex.net (nwsmtp/Yandex) with ESMTP id bo7ybITO7R-GcWuSLe2; Sun, 17 Mar 2019 14:16:38 +0300 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yandex.ru; s=mail; t=1552821398; bh=4sPpLwf+xIozst6YrTQIIQK6rMxi9RKeNsPWFg4NG/w=; h=In-Reply-To:Cc:To:Subject:From:References:Date:Message-Id; b=wInxFvcn66AIdtbwuO4Ppopg6eZMC+EsLC5hsA84E5owlyEys9N8Ho6zkgxSY+iT9 v+VzPQ5l7VTOg3C/My9FkdXtKcTUkyG5rzvBHB3Ra/Yww9fombQoSAQZN8BD+dq1Wo AHOABkShVunyS5u8eACR/DlijVVk84ML9482xwVE= Authentication-Results: mxback16o.mail.yandex.net; dkim=pass header.i=@yandex.ru Original-Received: by smtp1j.mail.yandex.net (nwsmtp/Yandex) with ESMTPSA id jYoJdG7ts7-Gbmi47FX; Sun, 17 Mar 2019 14:16:37 +0300 (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client certificate not present) In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: geary/master~g91967edc X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2a02:6b8:0:801:2::100 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:234261 Archived-At: =F7 =F7=D3, =CD=C1=D2 17, 2019 at 11:20 =E4=F0 (AM), Tim Cross=20 =CE=C1=D0=C9=D3=C1=CC: >=20 > Just for clarification, is your suggestion that savannah.gnu.org be=20 > changed to use GitLab instead of the current web interface or that=20 > GNU Emacs is moved from savannah to a new home based on GitLab? That GNU Emacs moved to a gitlab. savannah.gnu.org looks like a news site, I doubt gitlab would be a good=20 fit there. > One thing I think you have possibly overlooked or glossed over is the=20 > copyright requirements for contributions to GNU Emacs. I suspect this=20 > is one of the reasons Emacs is not developed in a similar fashion to=20 > other projects which are based on the use of pull requests etc. I've just read a bit about that. I might be missing some nuances of the=20 process, but right now I don't see how using merge requests vs emails=20 could interfere. > GitLab is a good package. We use it to manage our projects and find=20 > it very good. The CI and DevOps support is very useful for the types=20 > of projects we do. For GNU Emacs, the CI stuff could be useful as a=20 > way to automate running of test suites etc, but I can't see any=20 > benefit from the DevOps perspective. The issue tracker is OK, but not=20 > sure it would meet the demands associated with GNU Emacs. There are=20 > already existing Emacs wiki sites, so adding another wiki is possibly=20 > of little benefit. Many of the other GitLab features are likewise of=20 > marginal benefit given the specific nature of this project. There still are points besides the CI that I had in the initial email.=20 TL;DR of that is: the threshold for first contributions is very high. I=20 have been contributing to email-based projects for a while, and even I=20 still feel a little uncomfortable compared to merge/pull requests=20 workflow. If an arbitrary newcomer out there would consider "Hmm, I have used=20 Emacs and Visual Studio Code, where do I want to contribute"; they=20 easily gonna stop half-way through figuring out how to send a patch,=20 and not gonna contribute to Emacs. I also think out there in ".emacs" configs a lot of workarounds for=20 something that could've been changed inside Emacs instead. Because of=20 the threshold. > It would be a big job to migrate savannah.gnu.org to GitLab and you=20 > have the issue that despite the licensing, it isn't a GNU project,=20 > where I suspect all the interface etc on savannah is. I guess it=20 > would be for those who maintain that system to evaluate and make the=20 > call. I'm not convinced the effort would provide the benefits=20 > suggested. Reality is, those keen enough to complete the copyright=20 > assignment documents and commit to Emacs development are unlikely to=20 > use any web interface - instead just using git on the command line.=20 > The GitLab model works well where you have contributors with more=20 > 'casual' connection to the project. As I noted in initial mail, gitlab can be configured to create merge=20 requests from a command line. Also just "sign the copyright assignment"=20 vs "sign the copyright assignment, then struggle with the workflow (I'm=20 referring to the rest of the points)" are setting very different=20 thresholds for contribution. And, is having "casual contributors" bad? How many new "commited"=20 developers have you got in last few years? Commitment to a project is not something that happens overnight. You=20 first have a casual contributor, who sends occasional fixes and patches=20 because he likes the project, and wants to share it with others. After=20 a lot of time and discussions as he gets more acknowledged with=20 internals and peoples around he might start considering "What if I help=20 maintaining the project?". =