From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: =?utf-8?Q?Jostein=20Kj=C3=B8nigsen?= Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: GNU ELPA package for CC-mode Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2018 10:24:10 +0200 Message-ID: <1534753450.61885.1479668936.0BCA49E2@webmail.messagingengine.com> References: <20180819204918.GA3934@ACM> Reply-To: jostein@kjonigsen.net NNTP-Posting-Host: blaine.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_----------=_1534753450618850" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: blaine.gmane.org 1534753352 19670 195.159.176.226 (20 Aug 2018 08:22:32 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2018 08:22:32 +0000 (UTC) Cc: Alan Mackenzie To: Stefan Monnier , emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Mon Aug 20 10:22:28 2018 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1frfSF-00050l-0a for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 20 Aug 2018 10:22:28 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:45490 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1frfUL-000745-KE for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 20 Aug 2018 04:24:37 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:39675) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1frfUB-00073y-2z for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 20 Aug 2018 04:24:31 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1frfU0-0002bD-SH for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 20 Aug 2018 04:24:23 -0400 Original-Received: from out1-smtp.messagingengine.com ([66.111.4.25]:42123) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1frfTy-0002aA-TJ for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 20 Aug 2018 04:24:15 -0400 Original-Received: from compute6.internal (compute6.nyi.internal [10.202.2.46]) by mailout.nyi.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id B276721AAD; Mon, 20 Aug 2018 04:24:12 -0400 (EDT) Original-Received: from web5 ([10.202.2.215]) by compute6.internal (MEProxy); Mon, 20 Aug 2018 04:24:12 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= secure.kjonigsen.net; h=cc:content-transfer-encoding :content-type:date:from:in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version :references:reply-to:subject:to:x-me-sender:x-me-sender :x-sasl-enc; s=fm3; bh=Gg3vqQ4NwOg4//S7KjkX3iHeeoQzbCQ+lkBK+Rz5G /k=; b=VTcRSfjo/b08sZM06cDO1wedD7w8205T1U00im2jLZgMQphOXtpTi5ksB ZBOd5YJhwd1Xj3tMXhJ5Rhs8HSlv6cF+LTrRSjLfvdy4EZJE3Dw7fr54seMGncyk z2R66SyJaiYDRT8iwauBLuNc2NdeKymLfLO9Xb0/ac2B2i5sg+Pybj7gYfM1xYj3 Nkqc8y8dADZu74jLAoMb86ClzLchHfLS4pC5CZfdzsodiKVb918uY61j5GTczWRE unw6w8UnuLdngfEjKgruyj4CTxK+H4VS/0PYQ3OutN8dL/cs4iL+ncmFQq4iVZb0 AR6x0VBtT1UnO64hLloVHE9mMHzjw== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=cc:content-transfer-encoding:content-type :date:from:in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version:references :reply-to:subject:to:x-me-sender:x-me-sender:x-sasl-enc; s=fm3; bh=Gg3vqQ4NwOg4//S7KjkX3iHeeoQzbCQ+lkBK+Rz5G/k=; b=wSOsWjPjbFY0 knabWSNfuYZ9EtsciCWBkg7LaFvVANkJPW7qHLedhVLRM+5gpB16ZLW9MGUzOg8a Qc1/dv5FjYczlbS2wYjcANy32yVULgERlHCvLDK3HU8nRFgthfkQ31UFKVN+UtKr Xw6iaRUezWKfb78Xos9S+ofR2qLEmG5UpELAcuYVfrHxvCkdCasXdVToqlJmfW9I sn20Z1LOkscIurjcr62rjubL1+UMMQDu9zQVwWX9ldzsRLYBbYRKL1Pd0AdYyVn5 qvHNUE1sBx1r/mIjlKNtKw/VenLHnMrRxaH0uKr8eS2bSpzEHlklyCLSyvSD3qeB G1rszDL2TQ== X-ME-Proxy: X-ME-Sender: Original-Received: by mailuser.nyi.internal (Postfix, from userid 99) id 400689E1DB; Mon, 20 Aug 2018 04:24:10 -0400 (EDT) X-Mailer: MessagingEngine.com Webmail Interface - ajax-7b72137a In-Reply-To: X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 66.111.4.25 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:228714 Archived-At: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --_----------=_1534753450618850 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" On Mon, Aug 20, 2018, at 1:45 AM, Stefan Monnier wrote: >>> I just tested the construction of a GNU ELPA package for CC- >>> mode using>>> the :core thingy of elpa.git and everything looks good. >> Who's going to be testing this? I've a slight suspicion that >> sometimes>> people add things to CC Mode that depend on things in master. >> That would>> be subotimal for ELPA. >=20 > This has not proved to be a problem for other packages we handle this> wa= y (e.g. soap-client, python.el, ...). > One of the reasons is that it's so cheap&quick to release a new > version> that such problems are trivial to solve if/when they show up. cc-mode is not only used inside core Emacs, but also by third party developers. cc-mode has historically been shipped as part of Emacs, and has (as I've understood things) tried to maintain a compatibility situation in line with that: i.e. a minor Emacs release should not warrant breaking changes in cc-mode. When cc-mode has breaking changes, third-party major-modes deriving from cc-mode trying to provide a reasonable level of compatibilty (thus reducing friction for end-users), has previously had the option to check against the running version of Emacs to decide which code-path to use. As such, a change like this seems to impact third-party major-modes deriving from cc-mode. I'm not saying such a change universally and categorically will make things worse (I can see some things improving too), but I think it makes sense to consider the full impact of such changes before committing to them. -- Regards Jostein Kj=C3=B8nigsen jostein@kjonigsen.net =F0=9F=8D=B5 jostein@gmail.com https://jostein.kjonigsen.net --_----------=_1534753450618850 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8"
On Mon, Aug 20, 2018, at 1:45 AM, Stefan Monnier wrote:
I just tested the co= nstruction of a GNU ELPA package for CC-mode using
the :core thingy of elpa.git and everything looks good.
Who's going to be testing this?  I've a slight suspi= cion that sometimes
people add things to CC Mode that depend on things in master.  Th= at would
be subotimal for ELPA.

This has not proved to be a problem for other packages we handle this<= br>
way (e.g. soap-client, python.el, ...).
One of the reasons is that it's so cheap&quick to release a new ve= rsion
that such problems are trivial to solve if/when they show up.

cc-mode is not only used inside core Emacs, but also by third party de= velopers.

cc-mode has historically been shipped as part of Emacs, and has (as I'= ve understood things) tried to maintain a compatibility situation in line w= ith that: i.e. a minor Emacs release should not warrant breaking changes in= cc-mode.

When cc-mode has breaking changes, third-party major-modes deriving fr= om cc-mode trying to provide a reasonable level of compatibilty (thus reduc= ing friction for end-users), has previously had the option to check against= the running version of Emacs to decide which code-path to use.

As such, a change like this seems to impact third-party major-modes de= riving from cc-mode.

I'm not saying such a change universally and categorically will make t= hings worse (I can see some things improving too), but I think it makes sen= se to consider the full impact of such changes before committing to them.

--
Regard= s
Jostein Kj=C3=B8nigsen

jostein@k= jonigsen.net =F0=9F=8D=B5 jostein@= gmail.com
https://= jostein.kjonigsen.net



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