From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Paul Rankin Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Adding advisory notification for non-ELPA package.el downloads Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2017 00:36:40 +1000 Message-ID: <1500561400.523072.1047139192.217F8F40@webmail.messagingengine.com> References: <1500553768.497130.1046984072.1622AF4D@webmail.messagingengine.com> <837ez3b4yd.fsf@gnu.org> <1500559308.516260.1047108888.2750C01A@webmail.messagingengine.com> <834lu7b35o.fsf@gnu.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: blaine.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: blaine.gmane.org 1500561475 30947 195.159.176.226 (20 Jul 2017 14:37:55 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2017 14:37:55 +0000 (UTC) Cc: rms@gnu.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Thu Jul 20 16:37:48 2017 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1dYCaH-0007Le-Hc for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 20 Jul 2017 16:37:45 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:38356 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1dYCaJ-00019P-Rz for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 20 Jul 2017 10:37:47 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:44861) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1dYCZM-00018W-0n for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 20 Jul 2017 10:36:49 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1dYCZK-0006tG-Tf for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 20 Jul 2017 10:36:48 -0400 Original-Received: from out1-smtp.messagingengine.com ([66.111.4.25]:60359) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1dYCZG-0006s3-2v; Thu, 20 Jul 2017 10:36:42 -0400 Original-Received: from compute3.internal (compute3.nyi.internal [10.202.2.43]) by mailout.nyi.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1A85A20978; Thu, 20 Jul 2017 10:36:41 -0400 (EDT) Original-Received: from web5 ([10.202.2.215]) by compute3.internal (MEProxy); Thu, 20 Jul 2017 10:36:41 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=paulwrankin.com; h=cc:content-transfer-encoding:content-type:date:from :in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version:references:subject:to :x-me-sender:x-me-sender:x-sasl-enc; s=fm1; bh=p53PW04UkdnUPSQKT PO2ODVBXbK+wcGiShvabfKlUIc=; b=Y+dX5fulweAgWW/CfhX72Y9cclnpGcmRQ pzcTE6dfiAs6TeVC3WemPHuXJKTMbMK5unpzXEv9d8Ji3mFsqGxK3ApY3js2jdm7 HuAoTiLfx+RFkmyKO10ss6DRl1Hz/W7warS6vpLTDd3skkpqm/+9K39ikWxX3AfQ j2qmocoCKb+5B1VipirM2dYhWdY6dfDZ8eQq5Be0iuVMu3fJxg+Jkc8uyFiGuF5A +KGsfRpn7ViLth79my2YhU39GhYfbuT+PQsWA2PsKzMZapgja1GfN4DHaIHaJ6gP GPhMDsspJsw8KHbfi53sZ80bOoRdJ/wMlqWowl5oGQZbl7gIeQUUg== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=cc:content-transfer-encoding:content-type :date:from:in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version:references :subject:to:x-me-sender:x-me-sender:x-sasl-enc; s=fm1; bh=p53PW0 4UkdnUPSQKTPO2ODVBXbK+wcGiShvabfKlUIc=; b=pGHZ55QRs/VH4IZeizcPjg Uk2Gmm4HZIHUETXIekofkqstxfS/gNARvEuPeOextzs+HiNIMAT0kM0fHhKJqgdX vWg6TpRwd/m17R1CpSZakXtaF4088M1IBIUEpzyPccvS38PeyFyoey2VqaUZy40+ gMJhoDCWKkcmQDEbnH2w7TcuZzAKt8KDx+s0ko/aemNhpSYVNN2ohEBuOB9bEE+J t6eNKEBf4SWcaYmVlTVnXQQHzAcGfYEakfmzO5/6SV3sBk7CG5OHxGmrPXlZK5+H YyUPm38AnYn3FLxEYnHFF+g4qevMZNJU68DDlz2SZwVX/g9QUGtz2wsFbCVRJ6+g == X-ME-Sender: Original-Received: by mailuser.nyi.internal (Postfix, from userid 99) id EC6659E224; Thu, 20 Jul 2017 10:36:40 -0400 (EDT) X-Mailer: MessagingEngine.com Webmail Interface - ajax-095ee039 In-Reply-To: <834lu7b35o.fsf@gnu.org> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] [fuzzy] X-Received-From: 66.111.4.25 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:216894 Archived-At: On Fri, 21 Jul 2017, at 12:20 AM, Eli Zaretskii wrote: > > From: Paul Rankin > > Cc: rms@gnu.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org > > Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2017 00:01:48 +1000 > >=20 > > On Thu, 20 Jul 2017, at 11:42 PM, Eli Zaretskii wrote: > > > I think you might misunderstand the nature and the essence of the > > > copyright assignment: it doesn't in any way diminish the author's > > > rights on his/her code. Here's a direct citation from > > >=20 > > > https://www.fsf.org/bulletin/2014/spring/copyright-assignment-at-the= -fsf > > >=20 > > > Sometimes contributors are concerned about giving up rights to their > > > work. As the assignment is a gift to the free software community, > > > they don't want it to come at the expense of having flexibility in > > > the use of their own code. Thus, we grant back to contributors a > > > license to use their work as they see fit. This means they are free > > > to modify, share, and sublicense their own work under terms of their > > > choice. This enables contributors to redistribute their work under > > > another free software license. While this technically also permits > > > distributing their work under a proprietary license, we hope they > > > won't. > > >=20 > > > I can confirm that every one of my assignments I got back signed by > > > the FSF includes a specific clause about the above rights granted back > > > to me. > >=20 > > Eli you've missed the point completely. >=20 > Maybe so, but then how about explaining what I missed? >=20 > From my POV, you expressed a concern about giving up the rights for > your code, and I pointed out that by assigning you don't give up any > rights. Given that Cl=C3=A9ment pointed out the "Author" and/or "Written > by" records in the sources, what other concerns remain? Copyright is not merely functional, and you're reducing it to even lesser functional purposes by arguing that given assigning copyright to the FSF retains the subset of functional purposes of copyright that are important to you, then they are effectively the same and should be treated the same for everyone. Copyright is not its function, rather its functions arise as the manifestations of the importance we see in authorship as ownership. That's a symbolic importance, and while that may not mean much to you, it's where all the functional purposes above come from. Owning a thing, and having rights to that thing as if you owned it, are not the same thing.