On 16/04/2020 01.28, Eli Zaretskii wrote: >> From: Richard Stallman >> Date: Wed, 15 Apr 2020 22:30:20 -0400 >> Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org, ndame@protonmail.com >> >> Another question about them: are they among the segment of users for >> whom the investment of learning Emacs would pay off? > > I don't really know the answer, but I'd like to remind all of us that > there's a lot of "propaganda" out there telling everyone to turn off > GUI features such as the menu bar and the tool bar. The network is > full of personal init files that "proudly" do that, and forums like > Reddit are full of such advice to every newbie who asks about > configuring their Emacs. It is hard to be enthusiastic about making > these features more modern when the community seems to be divided on > whether they should at all be present. IMO, we should first get our > act together and decide whether these features are important, and then > speak up according to those decisions when we see advice to the > contrary. That's a great point. My personal config has the tool bar turned off. Part of the reason is that with my desktop configuration (using a dark theme) the icons are unreadable (dark grey on a dark background, see attached screenshot), and part of the reason is that I didn't like the look of the icons in some of the (few) modes that use the tool-bar (e.g. in message-mode). (Also, I seem to have a bug with the tool-bar: when I hover over the first two buttons it doesn't show a tooltip, but if I click on of them and close the file-selection dialog before hovering over the button again I do see a tooltip). On the other hand, I have written some modes that override the user configuration and re-enable to tool-bar with mode-specific functions, and I haven't received complaints (see e.g. the attached screenshots). Clément.