From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: =?utf-8?Q?Bj=C3=B6rn?= Bidar Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Should native compilation be enabled by default? Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2024 22:42:08 +0200 Message-ID: <13305.117729918$1709671403@news.gmane.org> References: <86sf19p0hw.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="17596"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Cc: Eli Zaretskii , emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Richard Stallman Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Tue Mar 05 21:43:15 2024 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1rhbd5-0004Oh-L2 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Tue, 05 Mar 2024 21:43:15 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1rhbcD-0005c1-O8; Tue, 05 Mar 2024 15:42:21 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1rhbcB-0005bo-Qi for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 05 Mar 2024 15:42:19 -0500 Original-Received: from thaodan.de ([2a03:4000:4f:f15::1]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1rhbc6-000171-9v; Tue, 05 Mar 2024 15:42:19 -0500 Original-Received: from odin (dsl-trebng12-50dc75-154.dhcp.inet.fi [80.220.117.154]) by thaodan.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 8AFB8D039CB; Tue, 5 Mar 2024 22:42:09 +0200 (EET) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=thaodan.de; s=mail; t=1709671329; bh=0i2VOZYinyFNZaH+fZENaO8xj+hCnXpffVRGA+bQFJY=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:Date; b=eoG3q+99AAdNt8GKA0FReL1OazqjrBjJ3QtGDjqNDSLUPLN6bestQv51diPVciKa0 dWs5PJ30AH6qL4mBP91QVY5m3H1uexu3Z7kgJR1eEsmsPBD8uQ/ueG9Meg7Z2OvOAk BnGyWt45FTqYAULKrpaYRRkWwgOTKcKCkqUO/8UOVHGm/0D4hOzh42RJW776m8CxwZ iF7uAG+G2Az5OdTiPceqWgnCzGB723yfTTEkS2Joy8wWHsoafTeTmWS053KKz9NEmO kskjd2XcsKkL/+fd9KuMvecrpLk3gan0CVcPCLu770FJjZ2knldVdrS9+JXrQZulSK a77RhpcnySBVl1w61lR41WKSZUtdVB3feqxDl2HQvck0nZ4968LpUW/I5evFC2U3cP QW05uBClclUS/812tIp3g+8d+FxZn4AEyOsE9MUw81yY0wi+L0fThlJnEipJRvn9h8 hw+26kQQKG/ppiy9TTkZpzXDf5qGcy23CKedCnFndx79riby7QVuYJ1MqZ+R2gg7Ia W6rLsqeF7PZCBdd29+ioQBM/Dqlvcip8H2R1RVfW43RHhjGJv5e1wkBMj9DErmevCb HFpSUluKX2dXQHoxzeNson+O/nooxoIiA608w9hXqIlQCthgMZ3OlxW49UBnUNbP0w 1pvdUiRYdT5a/Ygfs40zgHxg= In-Reply-To: (Richard Stallman's message of "Mon, 04 Mar 2024 22:42:32 -0500") Autocrypt: addr=bjorn.bidar@thaodan.de; prefer-encrypt=nopreference; keydata= mDMEZNfpPhYJKwYBBAHaRw8BAQdACBEmr+0xwIIHZfIDlZmm7sa+lHHSb0g9FZrN6qE6ru60JUJq w7ZybiBCaWRhciA8Ympvcm4uYmlkYXJAdGhhb2Rhbi5kZT6IlgQTFgoAPgIbAwULCQgHAgIiAgYV CgkICwIEFgIDAQIeBwIXgBYhBFHxdut1RzAepymoq1wbdKFlHF9oBQJk1/YmAhkBAAoJEFwbdKFl HF9oB9cBAJoIIGQKXm4cpap+Flxc/EGnYl0123lcEyzuduqvlDT0AQC3OlFKm/OiqJ8IMTrzJRZ8 phFssTkSrrFXnM2jm5PYDoiTBBMWCgA7FiEEUfF263VHMB6nKairXBt0oWUcX2gFAmTX6T4CGwMF CwkIBwICIgIGFQoJCAsCBBYCAwECHgcCF4AACgkQXBt0oWUcX2hbCQEAtru7kvM8hi8zo6z9ux2h K+B5xViKuo7Z8K3IXuK5ugwA+wUfKzomzdBPhfxDsqLcEziGRxoyx0Q3ld9aermBUccHtBxCasO2 cm4gQmlkYXIgPG1lQHRoYW9kYW4uZGU+iJMEExYKADsCGwMFCwkIBwICIgIGFQoJCAsCBBYCAwEC HgcCF4AWIQRR8XbrdUcwHqcpqKtcG3ShZRxfaAUCZNf2FQAKCRBcG3ShZRxfaCzSAP4hZ7cSp0YN XYpcjHdsySh2MuBhhoPeLGXs+2kSiqBiOwD/TP8AgPEg/R+SI9GI9on7fBJJ0mp2IT8kZ2rhDOjg gA6IkwQTFgoAOxYhBFHxdut1RzAepymoq1wbdKFlH Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2a03:4000:4f:f15::1; envelope-from=bjorn.bidar@thaodan.de; helo=thaodan.de X-Spam_score_int: -14 X-Spam_score: -1.5 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.5 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, INVALID_MSGID=0.568, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01, T_SPF_TEMPERROR=0.01 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:316844 Archived-At: Richard Stallman writes: > > > Enabling native compilation has disadvantages as well as advantages. > > > What are the disadvantages? > > If Emacs compilation by default causes native compilation, it will be > slower. > At first a little but once the compilation for a file is done Emacs will be faster. > It will also be more fragile. Byte-compilation is a self-contained > Emacs feature, and aside from occasional bugs that affect specific > code, it never breaks. On general principles we can see that native > compilation is likely to go wrong because something has disappeared, > or because of bugs in other programs that you wouldnt otherwise ever > use. > Native compilation adds libgccjit as a dependency but from what I saw the not self contained or self contained nature of native-compilation was never an issue. > Native compilation is useful mainly for power users who want > to run Lisp programs that normally are too slow. There is no sense > directing most users into doing things gthe complex way instead > of the simple way. I don't "power user" is the right word here. Most users that actively choose native compilation had some kind of use case that was to slow e.g. programming with lsp that made use Emacs with native compilation but I would say most of them were experienced. Some distributions ship native compilation by default e.g. openSUSE.