From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Dmitry Gutov Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: What's missing in ELisp that makes people want to use cl-lib? Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2023 22:19:35 +0200 Message-ID: <12da6bcb-1818-7fbe-12af-8d4607724332@gutov.dev> References: <46ab3c7d-d820-4bb4-8ec4-97c614d7c8a0@alphapapa.net> <871qd8sfdx.fsf@posteo.net> <838r7g8pys.fsf@gnu.org> <87bkcbrgnr.fsf@posteo.net> <25924.21015.19614.951576@orion.rgrjr.com> <87bkc4jpja.fsf@dataswamp.org> <87r0l070jt.fsf@> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="31007"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:102.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/102.13.0 Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Alan Mackenzie , =?UTF-8?Q?Bj=c3=b6rn_Bidar?= Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Wed Nov 08 21:20:18 2023 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1r0p2A-0007q2-6O for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Wed, 08 Nov 2023 21:20:18 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1r0p1g-0008Su-Li; Wed, 08 Nov 2023 15:19:48 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1r0p1f-0008Si-N2 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 08 Nov 2023 15:19:47 -0500 Original-Received: from wout1-smtp.messagingengine.com ([64.147.123.24]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1r0p1a-0004c2-6o for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 08 Nov 2023 15:19:47 -0500 Original-Received: from compute1.internal (compute1.nyi.internal [10.202.2.41]) by mailout.west.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id C0955320094C; Wed, 8 Nov 2023 15:19:38 -0500 (EST) Original-Received: from mailfrontend2 ([10.202.2.163]) by compute1.internal (MEProxy); Wed, 08 Nov 2023 15:19:39 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gutov.dev; h=cc :cc:content-transfer-encoding:content-type:content-type:date :date:from:from:in-reply-to:in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version :references:reply-to:sender:subject:subject:to:to; s=fm2; t= 1699474778; x=1699561178; bh=uEYog3ylpkpZzg7xstG74NCKSjretwYUIDg qN3atSRc=; b=krSSAUeMn11jt8/b0V2Pd2Of11+1PMxcxJ09E16UcVcQMtIbfTb zahuthFpEXiQpXjTbNYuDiKktpsJzBU5TlEHg1g7eNp93ihsH0QG5X3KjleOc/42 OaUNaszdDN1YAOSCTjSKZbSnqdVo3FiJ7QnIaaipuVaL0Q6jo3SPy3NOuCwFChDj lRcFZVbDpiAC3g1JVgwc/vzseFNGnVYky3AtD4qAJcJRDPA7FZq6adHHJ75cDmQx RyR0FCq3yb/F2RqrglhmJi9DEVZsbE8D0uPkFWykJpEHfluVrC2WA0aru+RkUabT +a7uy2bSs+Pvb59vwyvDagKiBQshc3Q4ffw== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=cc:cc:content-transfer-encoding :content-type:content-type:date:date:feedback-id:feedback-id :from:from:in-reply-to:in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version :references:reply-to:sender:subject:subject:to:to:x-me-proxy :x-me-proxy:x-me-sender:x-me-sender:x-sasl-enc; s=fm3; t= 1699474778; x=1699561178; bh=uEYog3ylpkpZzg7xstG74NCKSjretwYUIDg qN3atSRc=; b=T0MR/refeM8VXu0GcYI4bHnFP6N2hteUoN9SCBXj31yaY19SLA4 2S+xQgL4le6sHq4i+F2V9tQiPt4pVMHJt7h6tBfg4B9SRtV/HIrQTV4D4QiizrpQ CVaRs+VKDAE1x3c43RiFtjN6AFwIn3VBvLGTrHFusjVQ+g9ngtf++Bz5Gfc7laV3 TW6Y2xgKYsolJ9r1FmhqWqZ+zfVKb/jJWW/WSlV7/VX+RGoSr6VExuE+WGnQH494 xo0WegkQ9+YEQ8Ce7aFuIRs67R1zAYSbOJbf3nOrviTeXrYX5GfwHO0XHqRHcxma ky2rEWzk6mlCZoFhk8GGrOm53ITXu3WLggg== X-ME-Sender: X-ME-Received: X-ME-Proxy-Cause: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgedvkedrudduledgudefgecutefuodetggdotefrod ftvfcurfhrohhfihhlvgemucfhrghsthforghilhdpqfgfvfdpuffrtefokffrpgfnqfgh necuuegrihhlohhuthemuceftddtnecusecvtfgvtghiphhivghnthhsucdlqddutddtmd enucfjughrpefkffggfgfuvfevfhfhjggtgfesthejredttdefjeenucfhrhhomhepffhm ihhtrhihucfiuhhtohhvuceoughmihhtrhihsehguhhtohhvrdguvghvqeenucggtffrrg htthgvrhhnpeeigfetveehveevffehledtueekieeikeeufeegudfgfeeghfdulefgfeev ledvveenucevlhhushhtvghrufhiiigvpedtnecurfgrrhgrmhepmhgrihhlfhhrohhmpe gumhhithhrhiesghhuthhovhdruggvvh X-ME-Proxy: Feedback-ID: i0e71465a:Fastmail Original-Received: by mail.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA; Wed, 8 Nov 2023 15:19:36 -0500 (EST) Content-Language: en-US In-Reply-To: Received-SPF: pass client-ip=64.147.123.24; envelope-from=dmitry@gutov.dev; helo=wout1-smtp.messagingengine.com X-Spam_score_int: -60 X-Spam_score: -6.1 X-Spam_bar: ------ X-Spam_report: (-6.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, NICE_REPLY_A=-3.277, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H5=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:312361 Archived-At: On 08/11/2023 19:18, Alan Mackenzie wrote: > Throughout this long discussion, this indiscriminate use of cl-lib has > been supported only by occasional contributers. Those who actually > maintain other people's code, apart from (I think) Eli, Richard and > myself, have been conspicuously silent. I like cl-lib (it could be optimized better still, but it's good for certain uses), and this discussion doesn't look like it will reach any constructive conclusion, so it didn't seem worth it to spend time on it.