From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Drew Adams" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: RE: Oop customization group Date: Sat, 6 Jun 2009 11:08:55 -0700 Message-ID: <129D9AC44DD94AFCB28C267A28E19785@us.oracle.com> References: <93AA5CFC-247B-4DD7-9E4E-168F8D6DB7D4@gmail.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1244311758 13384 80.91.229.12 (6 Jun 2009 18:09:18 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 6 Jun 2009 18:09:18 +0000 (UTC) To: "'David Reitter'" , "'Emacs-Devel devel'" Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sat Jun 06 20:09:14 2009 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1MD0KP-000073-DX for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 06 Jun 2009 20:09:13 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:39408 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1MD0KO-0003KZ-QT for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 06 Jun 2009 14:09:12 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1MD0KK-0003Fh-5j for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 06 Jun 2009 14:09:08 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1MD0KF-000339-H7 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 06 Jun 2009 14:09:07 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=36710 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1MD0KF-000330-Df for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 06 Jun 2009 14:09:03 -0400 Original-Received: from acsinet11.oracle.com ([141.146.126.233]:32223) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS-1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1MD0KF-00039Y-0z for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 06 Jun 2009 14:09:03 -0400 Original-Received: from acsinet15.oracle.com (acsinet15.oracle.com [141.146.126.227]) by acsinet11.oracle.com (Switch-3.3.1/Switch-3.3.1) with ESMTP id n56I9hWW018243 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 6 Jun 2009 18:09:44 GMT Original-Received: from abhmt009.oracle.com (abhmt009.oracle.com [141.146.116.18]) by acsinet15.oracle.com (Switch-3.3.1/Switch-3.3.1) with ESMTP id n56I9wRY030707; Sat, 6 Jun 2009 18:09:58 GMT Original-Received: from dradamslap1 (/24.5.184.4) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Sat, 06 Jun 2009 11:08:53 -0700 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5579 Thread-Index: AcnmocvL0r1rwAbESyq00O7xwzctmAAK9x4w In-Reply-To: <93AA5CFC-247B-4DD7-9E4E-168F8D6DB7D4@gmail.com> X-Source-IP: abhmt009.oracle.com [141.146.116.18] X-Auth-Type: Internal IP X-CT-RefId: str=0001.0A010202.4A2AB0B6.01AF:SCFSTAT5015188,ss=1,fgs=0 X-detected-operating-system: by monty-python.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 1) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:111357 Archived-At: > Also, I don't think the structure of these groups is very > well though[t] out: We have "Languages", then "Tools", which > is helpfully labeled "Programming tools". What's a tool, > and what's not? I think this means "general utilities: > tools for programming in any language". > But the structuring isn't good in the first place... > there are just two entries in the "Programming" group. > This doesn't justify an extra level in the hierarchy. Group inheritance can be multiple. This is essentially a tagging mechanism (in the sense of del.icio.us tags, not Emacs tags), whether or not it was intended that way. Perhaps the UI should reflect this more directly - be more like the kinds of access typically provided for tag sets. Dunno. I'm not a big user of tagging UIs, so I don't have an opinion about that. But that's the way I see Emacs groups now - not so much as a hierarchical directory structure, more like a tagging mechanism. There are some tagging UIs in Emacs. IIUC, Org mode has one, and a few others can be found on Emacs Wiki. Dunno if it would be worth it to adapt access to Customize groups more along such lines. Yes, some cleanup of the predefined groups might help. But as you point out, it's not always super clear what each category/group/tag is supposed to represent. Yes, I agree that finding things by group/tag is not as simple as it might be. No, I don't have any specific suggestions. One problem with Customize seems to be that it's hard to find people who want to work on it, to make improvements. Another problem is that it's hard to find agreement here about what should be done. But if you have a minor, incremental suggestion (fix) wrt Customize groups, there's a chance it would be adopted.