From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Jeff Clough Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Emacs User Friendliness Question/Hope Date: Fri, 16 Jul 2010 10:30:57 -0400 Message-ID: <1279290657.2135.131.camel@logrus.localdomain> References: <1279277325.2135.114.camel@logrus.localdomain> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1279290687 15664 80.91.229.12 (16 Jul 2010 14:31:27 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 16 Jul 2010 14:31:27 +0000 (UTC) To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri Jul 16 16:31:24 2010 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OZlwd-0005Bf-8V for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 16 Jul 2010 16:31:23 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:51341 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1OZlwa-0005fb-Uh for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 16 Jul 2010 10:31:16 -0400 Original-Received: from [140.186.70.92] (port=57212 helo=eggs.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1OZlwS-0005b2-V1 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 16 Jul 2010 10:31:10 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OZlwK-0005d3-2v for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 16 Jul 2010 10:31:00 -0400 Original-Received: from hrndva-omtalb.mail.rr.com ([71.74.56.123]:57540) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OZlwK-0005cl-0S for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 16 Jul 2010 10:31:00 -0400 X-Authority-Analysis: v=1.1 cv=Wd4F0Mu8V05kqqt67pyjJbbzQCzSsR+BbLtAgo88TiY= c=1 sm=0 a=FKcTpkZV5rYA:10 a=ood2b7iyd8MA:10 a=IkcTkHD0fZMA:10 a=wN3dDBks/ChO7xvezkoALQ==:17 a=xy4ZmrVVEsti785OX9YA:9 a=S1YKILca35irlYq5268zhPtYfEgA:4 a=QEXdDO2ut3YA:10 a=wN3dDBks/ChO7xvezkoALQ==:117 X-Cloudmark-Score: 0 X-Originating-IP: 74.70.71.134 Original-Received: from [74.70.71.134] ([74.70.71.134:49746] helo=[192.168.1.101]) by hrndva-oedge04.mail.rr.com (envelope-from ) (ecelerity 2.2.2.39 r()) with ESMTP id B7/87-25499-22D604C4; Fri, 16 Jul 2010 14:30:58 +0000 In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Evolution 2.30.2 (2.30.2-1.fc13) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:127437 Archived-At: On Fri, 2010-07-16 at 15:07 +0100, Uday S Reddy wrote: > On 7/16/2010 11:48 AM, Jeff Clough wrote: > > > With Emacs 23.x, this takes only a few lines in my .emacs file. As the > > amount of "user friendliness" goes up, the lines in my .emacs will > > likely also go up (the change to how kill/yank interacts with the > > clipboard is an example). > > How does it matter if the .emacs grows? It might not matter to you, but it matters to me and likely to some other people as well. I'd rather my .emacs contain only things that extend the software (new bindings, loading my own lisp, etc.) or set variables necessary for the packages I use (like pointing slime to sbcl). The less code needed to do things like turning something off or tweaking an "internal" setting, the better. > Don't you think it is worth the trouble if it helps Emacs continue to stay > popular and thriving with new generations of users? I think some people think it's worth the trouble of changing Emacs to work in a more expected way for new users. Some people may also think it's worth adding a few lines to their .emacs files to accommodate this. I also think some people would like the number of lines to be kept to a minimum. There's a way to let Emacs "continue to stay popular and thriving with new generations of users" that does not also make it more difficult to work with (or configure) for existing users that are quite happy with the way it is now. I don't think it's unreasonable for a new "usability" feature to check a global setting before doing it's magic. Or to otherwise be disabled unless either enabled specifically or enabled via a global "make Emacs work like Notepad" command. Make it on by default, but give me a way to turn it off with one line, as opposed to having one to three lines for every one of these enhancements. Jeff