From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Thomas Lord Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Infrastructural complexity. Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2009 10:53:11 -0700 Message-ID: <1249062791.6160.85.camel@dell-desktop.example.com> References: <20090712180623.GA1009@muc.de> <1248289454.7109.47.camel@dell-desktop.example.com> <4A682C53.2080307@gmx.at> <1248375083.15583.9.camel@dell-desktop.example.com> <4A6970B8.7000006@gmx.at> <4A6AC7EA.2010007@gmx.at> <4A6B3CE2.8070404@gmx.at> <4A6C72BE.5080207@gmx.at> <1248628716.5952.11.camel@dell-desktop.example.com> <4A6C961E.3030805@gmx.at> <1248633292.5952.21.camel@dell-desktop.example.com> <4A6D4BE3.9080102@gmx.at> <1248710762.6165.28.camel@dell-desktop.example.com > <4A6DDB8D.2070601@gmx.at> <1248717944.6165.47.camel@dell-desktop.example.com> <4A6EAAE4.3090309@gmx.at> <1248794312.5971.7.camel@dell-desktop.example.com> <4A7010F8.90308@gmx.at> <1248895321.5922.54.camel@dell-desktop.example.com> <4A7162CF.6030209@gmx.at> <1248973286.6257.34.camel@dell-desktop.example.com> <4A72B47E.9060608@gmx.at> <1249057146.6160.40.camel@dell-desktop.example.com> <4A7322A8.80801@gmx.at> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1249062817 1502 80.91.229.12 (31 Jul 2009 17:53:37 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2009 17:53:37 +0000 (UTC) Cc: rms@gnu.org, cyd@stupidchicken.com, lennart.borgman@gmail.com, joakim@verona.se, emacs-devel@gnu.org, juri@jurta.org, Stefan Monnier , acm@muc.de, drew.adams@oracle.com, Miles Bader To: martin rudalics Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri Jul 31 19:53:28 2009 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1MWwIJ-00088x-KF for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 31 Jul 2009 19:53:27 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:39660 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1MWwIJ-0007lj-1s for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 31 Jul 2009 13:53:27 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1MWwIE-0007lc-Df for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 31 Jul 2009 13:53:22 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1MWwI9-0007ke-Pf for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 31 Jul 2009 13:53:21 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=46093 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1MWwI9-0007kb-Me for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 31 Jul 2009 13:53:17 -0400 Original-Received: from smtp121.iad.emailsrvr.com ([207.97.245.121]:41388) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS-1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1MWwI6-0001yl-Pt; Fri, 31 Jul 2009 13:53:14 -0400 Original-Received: from relay2.r2.iad.emailsrvr.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by relay2.r2.iad.emailsrvr.com (SMTP Server) with ESMTP id E740C44C03C; Fri, 31 Jul 2009 13:53:13 -0400 (EDT) Original-Received: by relay2.r2.iad.emailsrvr.com (Authenticated sender: lord-AT-emf.net) with ESMTPSA id 21BB044C025; Fri, 31 Jul 2009 13:53:12 -0400 (EDT) In-Reply-To: <4A7322A8.80801@gmx.at> X-Mailer: Evolution 2.22.3.1 X-detected-operating-system: by monty-python.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.4-2.6 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:113470 Archived-At: On Fri, 2009-07-31 at 18:58 +0200, martin rudalics wrote: > We mostly agree on that. But I cannot seriously agree on a concept that > has frames contain windows and other frames and have some parts of Emacs > consider those other frames as fringes. That way madness lies. I'm torn between replying and not replying because I don't want to abuse your time and I'm not hung up on "having the last word" but... but...but.... I can't help myself: It's not madness, darn it. Emacs has been gradually accumulating features that "draw stuff in margins" both of frames and windows. What is drawn in margins has grown more sophisticated over time (e.g., first just menu-bars, then tool-bars...) It's not too much of a stretch to draw frames in those margins. And, how about this (and this is half joking but only half, maybe less than half): Consider attached frames in connection with the ability to parent an arbitrary X window in an attached frame (instead of displaying buffers there). Consider that in combination with treating the X root window as a single (parent) frame display. By happy coincidence, you very nearly get a complete Emacs-based tiling X window manager - almost for free. It's also a floor wax. -t