From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: =?utf-8?Q?Bj=C3=B6rn?= Bidar Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Lisp files that load cl-lib in problematical ways Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2023 11:10:06 +0300 Message-ID: <11973.4591733263$1698135077@news.gmane.org> References: <835y38qvlg.fsf@gnu.org> <87bkcx6eci.fsf@dataswamp.org> <83ttqnm4ti.fsf@gnu.org> <83lebyu5yx.fsf@gnu.org> <4684f43123d7dee59461@heytings.org> <835y2xo1a5.fsf@gnu.org> <4684f4312391906f6101@heytings.org> <831qdlo084.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="23666"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Cc: Eli Zaretskii , Gregory Heytings , rms@gnu.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Stefan Kangas Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Tue Oct 24 10:11:08 2023 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1qvCVH-0005wG-T9 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Tue, 24 Oct 2023 10:11:07 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qvCUU-0000yz-P2; Tue, 24 Oct 2023 04:10:18 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qvCUT-0000yi-La for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 24 Oct 2023 04:10:17 -0400 Original-Received: from thaodan.de ([2a03:4000:4f:f15::1]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qvCUN-00056f-Ju; Tue, 24 Oct 2023 04:10:17 -0400 Original-Received: from odin (dsl-trebng12-50dc77-87.dhcp.inet.fi [80.220.119.87]) by thaodan.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 01790D00316; Tue, 24 Oct 2023 11:10:06 +0300 (EEST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=thaodan.de; s=mail; t=1698135007; bh=ivIOv75A6kq9yO7R5w3w20HEIp0PqE6UowSbiB/0QAw=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:Date; b=upIBFdaEQH2nT2UrL89W3rtUougqHS4Rg/JN1yTHz0u+Kd728CfkcSLg7acsaTd1C a+QawPded8+cD9Sl91baLCvjcF/5sDlH6hYeZUM7KuGwE+72oLnUvAxQTn+pT8zwyb iuSCR9cYgndwZ4WKbLMN7uZsEeoxidby5AuX1yws9+xbF2JqwVJ3sEbrznOk6JsF1a w+jpALnpWknGxOWIwoWg/AT+MKeUWpwWe10mXKFTNWrnsM4E3KHDVGHm8u6EFgSMTe EzuGq2JHx3DeZpK06TmJK3bVIvdydWe9UjNCYdZvv0Jz9aP73oKJwsBt+viZD1vGDW tVbeqd2eHe6OEjn22Vge89/amdaWtb6REVWfq10qG1YTojv/Z3QrF/oPWYQ1n+ioWw kcBXmBQJDusBAWoVHXP3P6aBT7UTFa1kCqwhWAHQOtU7duo7GcCiwOiVT6sQcYuMYi mp+2jsnyLLKNtadMoQi5P1iIh5S6XveOn8xsCVw/PCvS15YfwaFuu98g2XtWIzGQ1T s+xjQChv33z62/uit3RA7gjGDwJujYHMmGsCj+/57ZgN0nrdXNA4KfhK44oVzlnOfP zA3MSbGDYW+XdfUtr5uphmfSoAGp7CJOnpTk7U3DjUITT9NFN36wiEj38VP1O4lLTJ olxIQd3fdbF/LwMuRQ735lIc= In-Reply-To: (Stefan Kangas's message of "Mon, 23 Oct 2023 15:11:06 -0700") Autocrypt: addr=bjorn.bidar@thaodan.de; prefer-encrypt=nopreference; keydata= mDMEZNfpPhYJKwYBBAHaRw8BAQdACBEmr+0xwIIHZfIDlZmm7sa+lHHSb0g9FZrN6qE6ru60JUJq w7ZybiBCaWRhciA8Ympvcm4uYmlkYXJAdGhhb2Rhbi5kZT6IlgQTFgoAPgIbAwULCQgHAgIiAgYV CgkICwIEFgIDAQIeBwIXgBYhBFHxdut1RzAepymoq1wbdKFlHF9oBQJk1/YmAhkBAAoJEFwbdKFl HF9oB9cBAJoIIGQKXm4cpap+Flxc/EGnYl0123lcEyzuduqvlDT0AQC3OlFKm/OiqJ8IMTrzJRZ8 phFssTkSrrFXnM2jm5PYDoiTBBMWCgA7FiEEUfF263VHMB6nKairXBt0oWUcX2gFAmTX6T4CGwMF CwkIBwICIgIGFQoJCAsCBBYCAwECHgcCF4AACgkQXBt0oWUcX2hbCQEAtru7kvM8hi8zo6z9ux2h K+B5xViKuo7Z8K3IXuK5ugwA+wUfKzomzdBPhfxDsqLcEziGRxoyx0Q3ld9aermBUccHtBxCasO2 cm4gQmlkYXIgPG1lQHRoYW9kYW4uZGU+iJMEExYKADsCGwMFCwkIBwICIgIGFQoJCAsCBBYCAwEC HgcCF4AWIQRR8XbrdUcwHqcpqKtcG3ShZRxfaAUCZNf2FQAKCRBcG3ShZRxfaCzSAP4hZ7cSp0YN XYpcjHdsySh2MuBhhoPeLGXs+2kSiqBiOwD/TP8AgPEg/R+SI9GI9on7fBJJ0mp2IT8kZ2rhDOjg gA6IkwQTFgoAOxYhBFHxdut1RzAepymoq1wbdKFlH Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2a03:4000:4f:f15::1; envelope-from=bjorn.bidar@thaodan.de; helo=thaodan.de X-Spam_score_int: -14 X-Spam_score: -1.5 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.5 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, INVALID_MSGID=0.568, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:311752 Archived-At: Stefan Kangas writes: > Eli Zaretskii writes: > >> Preloading unnecessary stuff is a slippery slope that once we start >> there's no way of knowing where we end. So let's not. > > AFAIK, the main drawback is increased memory consumption. The main > benefit is that Emacs starts faster. About how much memory are we talking here? All this sounds like talk about micro optimizations. Emacs speed is more limited about it being single threaded most of the time than anything else.