From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Drew Adams Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: RE: Documenting buffer display Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2018 11:24:04 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <10ed3b66-ca9d-4431-8a56-0b1f10ebc799@default> References: <5BCB1D82.3020108@gmx.at> <969a77ef-233b-428f-bf08-dba31d7cb895@default> <5BCB6DC7.50800@gmx.at> NNTP-Posting-Host: blaine.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: blaine.gmane.org 1540059743 20302 195.159.176.226 (20 Oct 2018 18:22:23 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2018 18:22:23 +0000 (UTC) To: martin rudalics , emacs-devel Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sat Oct 20 20:22:19 2018 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1gDvtC-0005BR-2i for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 20 Oct 2018 20:22:18 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:56189 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1gDvvI-00089i-IK for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 20 Oct 2018 14:24:28 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:35517) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1gDvv4-00088n-L9 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 20 Oct 2018 14:24:15 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1gDvv1-0002VO-FG for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 20 Oct 2018 14:24:14 -0400 Original-Received: from aserp2120.oracle.com ([141.146.126.78]:51244) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1gDvv1-0002V9-60 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 20 Oct 2018 14:24:11 -0400 Original-Received: from pps.filterd (aserp2120.oracle.com [127.0.0.1]) by aserp2120.oracle.com (8.16.0.22/8.16.0.22) with SMTP id w9KIO7Ol160519; Sat, 20 Oct 2018 18:24:07 GMT DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=oracle.com; h=mime-version : message-id : date : from : sender : to : subject : references : in-reply-to : content-type : content-transfer-encoding; s=corp-2018-07-02; bh=8v3Js6e7mJxuKglzYNvqTiDvNGZJhYCrd6jtN1Fua4Y=; b=opN+9x2XKR7uNBjyV7VcG8VfP+fNskdyd7t4fwE1rZukrmPbXwNPo26o2y7G++58Q9cn Oh/CjRy6nnhUaruNuO9qmb5hmNgntjqa+VRn5P8kC0xFLhICJw+6SC4Dx58fw7EHUOfQ 39XeP98c3itCPRLmQPwmzaJHFSl8qiv3AQdK8o8vTHFthNeJsolIa4f0580TzUeo0M3a gYBtP83YnmhWPKseLfMW4piXajKC66VhzPpDtTrDreGDmEOghhucX9mnORhoWs1ZcMPA qakbOLKN/yQ56gn0yDu9V+y9AlBjMDOyVR3vUzJayoqII+bCI0hAPXb7zhwKAGABiI3t Cg== Original-Received: from userv0022.oracle.com (userv0022.oracle.com [156.151.31.74]) by aserp2120.oracle.com with ESMTP id 2n7vaph83s-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 20 Oct 2018 18:24:07 +0000 Original-Received: from aserv0122.oracle.com (aserv0122.oracle.com [141.146.126.236]) by userv0022.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id w9KIO5Xg011438 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 20 Oct 2018 18:24:06 GMT Original-Received: from abhmp0012.oracle.com (abhmp0012.oracle.com [141.146.116.18]) by aserv0122.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id w9KIO5PH007497; Sat, 20 Oct 2018 18:24:05 GMT In-Reply-To: <5BCB6DC7.50800@gmx.at> X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9.1 (1003210) [OL 16.0.4756.0 (x86)] X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=5900 definitions=9052 signatures=668683 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 suspectscore=0 malwarescore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 spamscore=0 mlxscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.0.1-1807170000 definitions=main-1810200173 X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 141.146.126.78 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:230528 Archived-At: > > Being able to simply bind an option such as `pop-up-frames', > > to change the behavior of existing code, is very useful. >=20 > If it overrides a user's customization then that's not useful but bad. I disagree. If the behavior is documented in the command's doc string, as it should be, then the user is aware of it. Using a given command is a user choice. There is no reason to put on the hair shirt of not binding a user option in a user command, as long as the behavior is documented and the command ends always by restoring the user's preferred value for the option. Secondly, users themselves define commands, and the ability to bind such a variable - whether it is an option or not, is very useful for users. > > Please keep supporting, and not at all discourage, `pop-up-frames' > > and similar. >=20 > We do our best to support them in present code.=20 Thank you. That's all anyone can ask for. It's all I'm asking. > We have to discourage their use because there's no > guarantee that future code will support them. Not a good argument, IMO. There's never a guarantee that any future code will support anything. That's not a reason to remove doc for useful behavior and add doc that this or that useful feature is not guaranteed to be supported forever. There's no need for such a disclaimer - this applies to everything in Emacs.=20 > Have you read what I wrote about 'pop-up-frame-alist'? Already now > there's no guarantee that we can maintain these old options properly. > And I never tried to probe very deep in this area. No guarantee is no reason to discourage their use. If there are bugs and they get reported then that shows that the features are used. And I do appreciate that you have made an effort to maintain the functionality (as well as introducing new features). Anyway, again, just one opinion.