From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: David Reitter Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: gtk scroll bar deficiency Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2007 19:22:39 +0100 Message-ID: <1088867D-4306-4391-B0D0-E9CF971AE82B@gmail.com> References: <002201c7ae61$5d13fc00$d10990d4@j4f3n1> <87lkemki35.fsf@ambire.localdomain> <00b701c7aea8$72403de0$4a42fe91@j4f3n1> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.2) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1181845378 32227 80.91.229.12 (14 Jun 2007 18:22:58 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2007 18:22:58 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: grischka Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Thu Jun 14 20:22:57 2007 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1HytyB-0000m7-Hj for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 14 Jun 2007 20:22:56 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hyty7-0005gs-TQ for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 14 Jun 2007 14:22:51 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1Hyty3-0005gP-Ma for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 14 Jun 2007 14:22:47 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1Hyty1-0005eP-3U for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 14 Jun 2007 14:22:46 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hyty0-0005e8-Rn for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 14 Jun 2007 14:22:44 -0400 Original-Received: from ug-out-1314.google.com ([66.249.92.169]) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1Hytxz-0006SQ-Fv for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 14 Jun 2007 14:22:44 -0400 Original-Received: by ug-out-1314.google.com with SMTP id 34so805135ugf for ; Thu, 14 Jun 2007 11:22:36 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:x-priority:content-type:message-id:cc:content-transfer-encoding:from:subject:date:to:x-mailer; b=De0Yuz3adbuCkqkneI5OiYIRrzOPKV33Qk+RAvOgnBlCjUtXN3893scbqtJkaj5YbYWCbl+XvjZxla9+71T6wWK19Lx6cmip98xxHbRuknnbCGqsdRJ7TMGjlY5HMJuYDR2HdboqaSf5+Y84GoZfcFtBFnVXXKrOkUsRYcPU9sI= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=received:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:x-priority:content-type:message-id:cc:content-transfer-encoding:from:subject:date:to:x-mailer; b=XjuGAJLukJb8KJ/3bmeOTAf4QzHfqbToFdZw1xEu3IXWOpr9PiHkRDRZ0iooJ72urQY4Xii5peBAs8U4uM5fsSbHtQFvkrysMmeI+GTv1c+mlm7Y2veHatH+qWeesb7IpfPzg8s+IhSCb7fK1ZnqgBRCgKl+hHMAw4739NPQyR0= Original-Received: by 10.82.174.20 with SMTP id w20mr3938916bue.1181845356113; Thu, 14 Jun 2007 11:22:36 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from ?129.215.174.81? ( [129.215.174.81]) by mx.google.com with ESMTP id d26sm1022840nfh.2007.06.14.11.22.35 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Thu, 14 Jun 2007 11:22:35 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <00b701c7aea8$72403de0$4a42fe91@j4f3n1> X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.2) X-detected-kernel: Linux 2.4-2.6 (Google crawlbot) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:72886 Archived-At: On 14 Jun 2007, at 18:21, grischka wrote: > Fact is that the toolkits don't enforce neither the one nor > the other behaviour, but also that no scrollbar toolkit ever > will magically be able to adjust for the last line of the file > to stay on bottom of the window if the editor machinery can't > tell in advance (!) where in the file the last page starts. And similarly, keeping the editor at a constant size is pretty much impossible when the total number of lines in a buffer is unknown. That is, of course, very confusing to many users who consider switching to Emacs from another editor. To them, the vertical scroll- bar has to do with the vertical position in the buffer and the vertical dimensions of the window and the buffer. (The horizontal scroll-bar, if necessary, handles the horizontal dimensions.) The number of characters on each line and shown in the window isn't really perceptually salient. That's something that has been discussed earlier, and it hasn't been solved, which was fine when 22.1 was overdue. But now it would be nice to have the number of lines available. For the scroll-bar, a reasonable estimate would do the job (count line lengths in various randomly sampled portions of the buffer if the buffer is big): the scroll-bar is a visual tool and not an exact science. The number of characters on the last page(s) may need to be precisely determined, though