From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: A Soare Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Release plans Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2008 16:34:49 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <10697146.3630221218551689983.JavaMail.www@wwinf4615> Reply-To: alinsoar@voila.fr NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1218551728 18018 80.91.229.12 (12 Aug 2008 14:35:28 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2008 14:35:28 +0000 (UTC) Cc: "Emacs Dev \[emacs-devel\]" To: "Lennart Borgman (gmail)" Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue Aug 12 16:36:19 2008 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1KSuya-0001cS-5t for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 12 Aug 2008 16:35:56 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:41515 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1KSuxe-0003mI-1S for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 12 Aug 2008 10:34:58 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1KSuxZ-0003jC-96 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 12 Aug 2008 10:34:53 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1KSuxY-0003hg-Js for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 12 Aug 2008 10:34:52 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=42062 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1KSuxY-0003hW-9N for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 12 Aug 2008 10:34:52 -0400 Original-Received: from smtp2.voila.fr ([193.252.22.175]:11101 helo=smtp1.voila.fr) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1KSuxX-0006OU-MB for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 12 Aug 2008 10:34:52 -0400 Original-Received: from me-wanadoo.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mwinf4106.voila.fr (SMTP Server) with ESMTP id 22A6B580028F; Tue, 12 Aug 2008 16:34:50 +0200 (CEST) Original-Received: from wwinf4615 (wwinf4615 [10.232.13.59]) by mwinf4106.voila.fr (SMTP Server) with ESMTP id F26855800287; Tue, 12 Aug 2008 16:34:49 +0200 (CEST) X-ME-UUID: 20080812143449993.F26855800287@mwinf4106.voila.fr X-Originating-IP: [85.9.55.98] X-Wum-Nature: EMAIL-NATURE X-WUM-FROM: |~| X-WUM-TO: |~| X-WUM-CC: |~| X-WUM-REPLYTO: |~| X-me-spamlevel: not-spam X-me-spamrating: 40.000000 X-me-spamcause: OK, (-140)(0000)gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrvdejvddrfeekucetggdotefuucfrrhhofhhilhgvmecuoehnohhnvgeqnecuuegrihhlohhuthemuceftddtnecusecvtfgvtghiphhivghnthhsucdlqddutddtmdenucdlqddutddtmdenjhgvucdlqdduhedmnehiodgrmhculhhoohhkihhnghcufhhorhikfigrnhhtuchtohculddqvddtmdenlhhinhhugiefgiculddqfedtmdenshhomhgvsghougihucglthhiphhsngculddutddtmdenshgvgiculddvhedm X-detected-kernel: by monty-python.gnu.org: Linux 2.4-2.6 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:102336 Archived-At: > A Soare wrote: > >>> Quite so! Investing energy to develop it under Windows is (almost) lo= ss of energy! > >> Yes, I understood that this is what you meant. But in what way did you= =20 > >> reach this conclusion? > >=20 > > By induction. I do not use Windows, and in linux I use emacs for lots o= f purposes. >=20 > So you mean that for you personal benefits there is no use in developing= =20 > Emacs under Windows? ;-) I do not say that for _my_benefit_. I say that in general almost nobody use= emacs in windows. There are exceptions, quite so. But I have never seen ex= ceptions. >=20 > >>> I know a few cases of _good_ programmers at google, microsoft, etc th= at never thought to use emacs. > >>> > >>> The reason: Windows has nicer environments to write C++, Delphi, C# e= tc. (that is what they told me). > >> Then how can it be good to develop Emacs under any operating system? > >=20 > > In Emacs under Linux for Linux! >=20 > Did you mention any reason that I did not notice? Personally I always use emacs, and I need nothing else. I tell _exactly_ wh= at I heard that the others say. For me it is not useful under windows, and = I have never heard a windows user to use it. > >>> Emacs and Linux is used just by peuple that wants to understand how t= hings work. > >> Do you say that there is no use for Emacs? > >=20 > > In windows, yes, that is what I say. In Windows it is completely unusef= ul. >=20 > Then why is there a use for it under Linux? It seems like you are saying= =20 > that software under Linux is inferior to the corresponding software=20 > under Windows and because of this Emacs can be useful on Linux. No, there is no contradiction in what I say. I heard many programmers that they prefer use under GNU Linux others editor= s. The same reason: they want to gain money easy in my opinion. What choose everybody depends only of his _education_. Of his values. If yo= u tell soebody "Emacs is written profesionnaly and you can learn looking at= its sources" does not have the same effect on every person. The majority o= f peuple will say (I quote a programmer from gooooogle ) : "Yes, emacs is n= ice, but I do not like emacs, because I want to gain money, and others prog= rammers will copy-paste the open source projects, and they will steal me th= e projects" . And he never used emacs. In linux there are others C/C++ development environments than emacs that ca= n be used without effort. This discution is enless: the best is to put a button on emacs' page and to= ask peuple to vote if they need emacs under windows, and the reason why th= ey do. > If that is the case why is it Emacs we develop and not something better? I heard many saying that there are better development. If you say "emacs is= written in lisp, so it is very customisable" they will say "oui, mais je p= eux me passer d'emacs et me debrouiller facilement avec d'autres." >=20 > >>> Windows is used by peuple that want to gain money and to arrive quiqk= ly at their purpose. > >> Do you say that using Emacs makes it take long time to do things? > >=20 > > It takes little time when you have already learned how to use it. > > The first time when you did a thing, you will never choose something= =20 > different. > > Here is the point: the psychology. Peuple prefers never to make the=20 > first effort, > > and they prefer to use something to arrive quickly at the point. >=20 > Can we use that point to do something actively? Can we make Emacs better= =20 > in a way that it satisfies those people's need? (Still not sacrifiying=20 > other things.) This is like demanding to a cannibal "do you want to become a chretien"? No= t taking into account a famous tribe of cannibals that died because they lo= st their native croyance in cannibalisme, the question whether the user wan= t to use emacs does not depend on emacs. But on his values in which he is e= ducated. So my answer is: this is not a question for programmers, but for educators = and family. >=20 > >>> >From all my experience (all what I saw), windows interface for=20 > >>> > emacs is as important as the file ./etc/sex.6 in emacs' sources. > >> Are you saying that this is the only part of Emacs that we should keep= ;-) > >=20 > > Yes, Emacs in Linux is nice. >=20 > Why is the file etc/sex.6 so nice so that we should keep only that on=20 > Linux? ;-) >From my viewpoint, all the modules for windows are _not_ useful, i.e. they = have the same usefulness as this file. ____________________________________________________ Avant de prendre le volant, rep=C3=A9rez votre itin=C3=A9raire et visualise= z le trafic ! http://itineraire.voila.fr/itineraire.html