From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: main.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Joe Kelsey Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: skeleton.el _ versus @, a new patch Date: 21 Apr 2003 18:30:58 -0700 Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+emacs-devel=quimby.gnus.org@gnu.org Message-ID: <1050975058.74664.30.camel@zircon> References: <200303242005.h2OK57gr013285@rum.cs.yale.edu> <1048554010.20622.66.camel@zircon> <200303311740.h2VHeZNG017518@rum.cs.yale.edu> <1049242082.66437.15.camel@zircon> <200304020020.h320K4de023432@rum.cs.yale.edu> <1049245381.66437.33.camel@zircon> <20030403084549.2a5aca76.occitan@esperanto.org> <200304091626.h39GQlwc000430@rum.cs.yale.edu> <1050020736.419.11.camel@zircon> <200304112359.h3BNxpw5012335@rum.cs.yale.edu> <1050879051.74664.17.camel@zircon> NNTP-Posting-Host: main.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: main.gmane.org 1050975150 21348 80.91.224.249 (22 Apr 2003 01:32:30 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@main.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2003 01:32:30 +0000 (UTC) Cc: monnier+gnu/emacs@rum.cs.yale.edu Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+emacs-devel=quimby.gnus.org@gnu.org Tue Apr 22 03:32:28 2003 Return-path: Original-Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([80.91.224.244]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 197me4-0005YB-00 for ; Tue, 22 Apr 2003 03:32:28 +0200 Original-Received: from monty-python.gnu.org ([199.232.76.173]) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtp (Exim 3.12 #1 (Debian)) id 197mj5-0000WN-00 for ; Tue, 22 Apr 2003 03:37:39 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.10.13) id 197mdF-00015R-00 for emacs-devel@quimby.gnus.org; Mon, 21 Apr 2003 21:31:37 -0400 Original-Received: from list by monty-python.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.10.13) id 197mcg-00014a-00 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 21 Apr 2003 21:31:02 -0400 Original-Received: from mail by monty-python.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.10.13) id 197mce-00013c-00 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 21 Apr 2003 21:31:01 -0400 Original-Received: from dsl231-043-165.sea1.dsl.speakeasy.net ([216.231.43.165] helo=zircon.seattle.wa.us) by monty-python.gnu.org with smtp (Exim 4.10.13) id 197mcd-0000xu-00 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 21 Apr 2003 21:30:59 -0400 Original-Received: (qmail 83843 invoked from network); 22 Apr 2003 01:30:58 -0000 Original-Received: from localhost (HELO ?127.0.0.1?) (127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 22 Apr 2003 01:30:58 -0000 Original-To: rms@gnu.org In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.2.4 Original-cc: dapfy@t-online.de Original-cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1b5 Precedence: list List-Id: Emacs development discussions. List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+emacs-devel=quimby.gnus.org@gnu.org Xref: main.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:13337 X-Report-Spam: http://spam.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.devel:13337 On Mon, 2003-04-21 at 17:45, Richard Stallman wrote: > > Couldn't you get the same result with the old code > > by writing @ _? > > Here is a patch to add - as an alternate skeleton character. - operates > exactly as _ in setting skeleton-point, but does not interact with the > region wrapping effects. > > I don't want to say this is a bad idea, but before we consider it, > could you possibly tell me the answer to my question? Is @ in the new > behavior equivalent to @ _ with the old behavior of @? If not, could > someone tell me why not? The original behavior of @, as coded by Daniel Pfeiffer, was to *only* set skeleton positions. The original behavior of _ was twofold: one, to set skeleton-point (the first occurrence of _ sets skeleton-point), and two to mark positions for wrapping the skeleton around regions popped off a stack (actually, the normal region markers). Stefan added a second behavior for @, to have the first occurrence of either @ or _ set skeleton-point, the position point goes to after skeleton insertion. This new behavior for @ broke the semantics for skeletons which use _ to set skeleton-point and @ to only set skeleton-positions. The behavior I propose adds a new character whose only purpose is to provide an alternate method to set skeleton-point without interacting with regions at all. Therefore, the proposal I have made will set skeleton-point to the first occurrence of either - or _ while preserving the original semantics of both @ and _ otherwise. > Perhaps the "region wrapping effects" make them different--if so, that > might explain how your answer relates to my question--but I don't know > if that is true. > The issue Stefan wanted to address was the ability to set skeleton-point without interacting with the region effects. Unfortunately, his change broke the original semantics of @. It could be argued that it also broke the original semantics of _, but it is apparantly a benign issue since _ started with multiple uses and continues with multiple uses under the new system. Instead of overloading @ with a new use, we simply add a new character to take the role Stefan wanted to put on @. Is this clear enough? /Joe