From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: main.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Owen Taylor Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Gtk scrollbar: thumb too short Date: 27 Mar 2003 15:54:04 -0500 Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+emacs-devel=quimby.gnus.org@gnu.org Message-ID: <1048798444.15136.55.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <20030325193739.ZGIN3924.fep01-svc.swip.net@gaffa.gaia.swipnet.se> <1048780121.14517.22.camel@localhost.localdomain> NNTP-Posting-Host: main.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: main.gmane.org 1048799142 13601 80.91.224.249 (27 Mar 2003 21:05:42 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@main.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2003 21:05:42 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+emacs-devel=quimby.gnus.org@gnu.org Thu Mar 27 22:05:38 2003 Return-path: Original-Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([80.91.224.244]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 18yeZ8-0003X4-00 for ; Thu, 27 Mar 2003 22:05:38 +0100 Original-Received: from monty-python.gnu.org ([199.232.76.173]) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtp (Exim 3.12 #1 (Debian)) id 18yebB-0003FH-00 for ; Thu, 27 Mar 2003 22:07:45 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.10.13) id 18yeXW-0004YT-02 for emacs-devel@quimby.gnus.org; Thu, 27 Mar 2003 16:03:58 -0500 Original-Received: from list by monty-python.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.10.13) id 18yeXC-0004Wk-00 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 27 Mar 2003 16:03:38 -0500 Original-Received: from mail by monty-python.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.10.13) id 18yeXB-0004W8-00 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 27 Mar 2003 16:03:37 -0500 Original-Received: from nat-pool-rdu.redhat.com ([66.187.233.200] helo=lacrosse.corp.redhat.com) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.10.13) id 18yeVd-0003ZM-00; Thu, 27 Mar 2003 16:02:01 -0500 Original-Received: from landau.devel.redhat.com (landau.devel.redhat.com [172.16.56.103])h2RL1xo09443; Thu, 27 Mar 2003 16:01:59 -0500 Original-To: Andreas Schwab In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.2.2 (1.2.2-0) Original-cc: rms@gnu.org Original-cc: "Jan D." Original-cc: jody@gnome.org Original-cc: kai.grossjohann@uni-duisburg.de X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1b5 Precedence: list List-Id: Emacs development discussions. List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+emacs-devel=quimby.gnus.org@gnu.org Xref: main.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:12674 X-Report-Spam: http://spam.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.devel:12674 On Thu, 2003-03-27 at 11:50, Andreas Schwab wrote: > Owen Taylor writes: > > |> Thoughts here, in no particular order: > |> > |> * I've always found the emacs behavior with respect to the end of the > |> buffer quite confusing personally... I think it would be far > |> less confusing if the region that was scrolled was actually > |> confined to the lines of the buffer (or maybe lines in buffer + 1) > > I find this behaviour very convenient when scrolling through the buffer, > because the bottom line before scrolling is always > next-screen-context-lines down the top after scrolling. This makes it > very easy to continue reading, and it is consistent with the behaviour of > vi and less. Hmm, the default configuration of less seems to clamp to the end of the buffer for SPACE, though it looks probably changeable from the man page. Yes, it's consistent with vi. There is a definite tension between a nice GUI and acting nicely for keynav... to some extent, of course, the character-based rather than line based nature of the emacs scrollbar already makes it far from ideal for a GUI. I wouldn't disagree that there are some definite advantages to the current system, but it is going to mean a confusing scrollbar in one way or the other. > |> It's very easily in emacs's default configuration currently to > |> accidentally create text files with lots of trailing blank lines > |> since there is no visual differentiation between blank lines and > |> overscrolled space. > > Use indicate-empty-lines. Note the "default configuration" caveat. As I was writing the above, I thought "I bet there is some way to change this, it's Emacs after all" Regards, Owen