From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: main.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Ville =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Skytt=E4?= Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.xemacs.design,gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: INFO on add-ons Date: 04 Sep 2002 21:22:33 +0300 Sender: xemacs-design-admin@xemacs.org Message-ID: <1031163761.2470.183.camel@bobcat.ods.org> References: <3D728E82.8000808@cox.net> <87ptvxxkoj.fsf@tleepslib.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <87fzwtxad9.fsf@tleepslib.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <3D73F6D1.7010002@cox.net> <874rd7wuos.fsf@tleepslib.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <3D74D797.7000707@cox.net> <87bs7etocv.fsf@tleepslib.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <200209041549.g84FnQp19483@rum.cs.yale.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: localhost.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: main.gmane.org 1031163696 5019 127.0.0.1 (4 Sep 2002 18:21:36 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@main.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 4 Sep 2002 18:21:36 +0000 (UTC) Cc: "Stephen J. Turnbull" , Miles Bader , bob@rattlesnake.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org, xemacs-design@xemacs.org Return-path: Original-Received: from gwyn.tux.org ([207.96.1.200]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 17memV-0001Ip-00 for ; Wed, 04 Sep 2002 20:21:35 +0200 Original-Received: from gwyn.tux.org (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by gwyn.tux.org (8.9.3/8.9.1) with ESMTP id OAA15374; Wed, 4 Sep 2002 14:23:06 -0400 Original-Received: (from turnbull@localhost) by gwyn.tux.org (8.9.3/8.9.1) id OAA15341 for xemacs-design-mailman@xemacs.org; Wed, 4 Sep 2002 14:22:36 -0400 Original-Received: (from mail@localhost) by gwyn.tux.org (8.9.3/8.9.1) id OAA15337 for turnbull@tux.org; Wed, 4 Sep 2002 14:22:36 -0400 Original-Received: from posti.pp.htv.fi (posti.pp.htv.fi [212.90.64.50]) by gwyn.tux.org (8.9.3/8.9.1) with ESMTP id OAA15333; Wed, 4 Sep 2002 14:22:35 -0400 Original-Received: from cs78128057.pp.htv.fi ([62.78.128.57]) by posti.pp.htv.fi (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id g84IMv604271; Wed, 4 Sep 2002 21:22:57 +0300 (EETDST) Original-To: Stefan Monnier In-Reply-To: <200209041549.g84FnQp19483@rum.cs.yale.edu> X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.0.3 (1.0.3-6) X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by gwyn.tux.org id OAA15333 X-XEmacs-List: design Errors-To: xemacs-design-admin@xemacs.org X-BeenThere: xemacs-design@xemacs.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of design and features for XEmacs. List-Unsubscribe: , X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by gwyn.tux.org id OAA15374 Xref: main.gmane.org gmane.emacs.xemacs.design:1389 gmane.emacs.devel:7480 X-Report-Spam: http://spam.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.devel:7480 On Wed, 2002-09-04 at 18:49, Stefan Monnier wrote: > > (Obviously the retargetable backend is a > > _huge_ improvement, and I wouldn't go back, although I'd like to go > > forward from Texinfo to XMLinfo.) Yeah! Thumbs up here. > What's so great about compared to @kindex C-x k= ? > What's so great about foobar compared to @sample{fooba= r} ? The user base. What do you think is the percentage of the technically oriented people, especially "newcomers", that feel more comfortable with the former? Why should a "newcomer" who has a choice learn Texinfo if she already knows XML? IMO this is an important accessibility question too, not just syntactic sugar. > XML has its advantages, but for a *source* format, it's just way too > cumbersome/verbose, unless you use an editor that hides the markup, > but then what would such an editor look like ? I don't agree. There's a lot of people who actually like the tag soup, and who think that a decent syntax highlighting and indentation engine is good enough. But the point actually is that people have a choice to work with XML the way they want. Some free approaches (no, I haven't tried all of them out): Of course, there's also a lot of commercial implementations around. > If you say WYSIWYG, you know that it is very difficult to reconcile > with the purpose of TeXinfo which is to concentrate on the intent > and allow many *different* output formats. No, there's no such thing as WYSIWYG in XML. It's about structure, not presentation, as I gather Texinfo is too. And as I already said in another message, there's quite a lot one can do with XSLT. I'm not saying that any project should change from Texinfo to XML overnight, especially because I don't know enough about the former.=20 Personally, I wouldn't mind that, but of course there's a lot of people who would. If there's a way to use both XML and Texinfo and make them coexist happily, I'm all for it. --=20 \/ille Skytt=E4 ville.skytta at xemacs.org