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[217.227.105.113]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id az37-20020a05600c602500b003cfbe1da539sm785628wmb.36.2022.11.09.00.34.42 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Wed, 09 Nov 2022 00:34:42 -0800 (PST) Content-Language: en-US In-Reply-To: <877d04mzrz.fsf@rfc20.org> Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2a00:1450:4864:20::331; envelope-from=gerd.moellmann@gmail.com; helo=mail-wm1-x331.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, NICE_REPLY_A=-0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:299392 Archived-At: > I wonder if a consensus could be reached here. Namely, just omit :use > from any Emacs implementation of lisp packages. > > I would like to hear more from people with more Common Lisp experience > than I do, but importing all symbols from one package into another does > not strike me as an essential feature, or a good idea in general. Use-package (which is what :use is using in defpackage :-) is kind of a natural thing, for me. For example, this use is ubiquitous and might even be in the standard, I don't remember: (in-package "CL-USER") (use-package "COMMON-LISP") which basically says "let me use all of CL without qualification" in my interactive session. So, you don't have to write cl:car, you write car. And that's the spirit in which I've seen use-package is used in general: You are writing a package doing X11 stuff - you might (or might not) use package xlib. You don't like cl:loop, you might want to use the iterate package. You're in a compiler package, you might want to use the API of the assembler package. And so on. I think one important part to also keep in mind is that packages allow internal and external symbols. The external symbols are the API. The internals one can access (with X::Y), if you need to, but you should feel guilty :-). The evolution of APIs is of course another can of worms.