From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Dmitry Gutov Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Changes for emacs 28 Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2020 20:43:50 +0300 Message-ID: <0d663a92-f44f-2570-d9cc-58393742bf8f@yandex.ru> References: <83imckh9yt.fsf@gnu.org> <83ft7oh63h.fsf@gnu.org> <20200911121919.5oljwsot4g3bm7zq@Ergus> <83a6xwh4o3.fsf@gnu.org> <20200911125744.x7at74mr4dyrcktf@Ergus> <83zh5wfor3.fsf@gnu.org> <92d20285-2141-2ef3-da09-432aeb3ecec4@yandex.ru> <20200911211709.v2o6mbbhb6oz4o3b@Ergus> <4d7167ad-26c1-49a6-5613-3f44d48decff@yandex.ru> <20200912020142.llwb3l6gugnnygh2@Ergus> <165bb31c-5440-fff2-643f-0bbb36243a2a@yandex.ru> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="36097"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.10.0 Cc: spacibba@aol.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org, rekado@elephly.net, ghe@sdf.org, eliz@gnu.org, drew.adams@oracle.com To: rms@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Mon Sep 14 19:44:36 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1kHsWp-0009Gh-OB for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Mon, 14 Sep 2020 19:44:35 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:47278 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kHsWo-0007SC-Qx for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Mon, 14 Sep 2020 13:44:34 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:50868) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kHsWC-00071L-Dm for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 14 Sep 2020 13:43:56 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-lf1-x133.google.com ([2a00:1450:4864:20::133]:34834) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kHsWA-0000sZ-LN; Mon, 14 Sep 2020 13:43:56 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-lf1-x133.google.com with SMTP id w11so208149lfn.2; Mon, 14 Sep 2020 10:43:53 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=sender:subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id:date:user-agent :mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language:content-transfer-encoding; bh=BRdf4UEDd9BMQGlVSH+/CKg2RXerWGG9j+L8oIZCTVo=; b=vAnGIY074peOL6DitXKyVZjcdZgX95CmshRmxWHktjzfGe5JzQpCxFg9l67RNeLJ5h 0jIznK2nyCBRPr/YevRvd3/B0SSQQNUk0KGABEC170iEKQ9lEDRUViv9PCqYexX/AvBk +MXKFN+KlnaHy1YToR+n+0Xk6d8Kn61sHiM9nYwM0QD2kviNLGWltl+AjtBGf49tVOhr KeOC4BKBv67ltXf3XDsdjsb4D8aWGviOuMTwfL79H75C+UKoLxISJHJPx/0X7GjOZO/q aGu0GKILPGb04ROKcEwXqUgO3yh1DkWI8RSGQPhQCdc75X4d8b8nkSIsxywF/It3a+Z+ pC7w== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:sender:subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id :date:user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language :content-transfer-encoding; bh=BRdf4UEDd9BMQGlVSH+/CKg2RXerWGG9j+L8oIZCTVo=; b=hKEcFRwJepZKb9YYQJWwaDqMQ6PJPdUcQOGPilDOuArWt0I8zj1tbfer7eK3DHTqMy 1L6bRzD0PI6rNPwiZ7eM89cdR5R3oBF4ka2sX2Wmnv7Rl3hJ4HZgzEDe9vI8zhzOQDbW Ev+6xTkYJTc84JZpkUd9CUmdemx3ajDp9Ec0hBWYz4dUuM5m3VRzCl1OEjnm73qOB8to 8mt6d0sUkLwxfB9q9QO0JcJ6I/ul3Tsexw1NyMcazNO2Y0ulhndXVJtdpQpVXlg0OQ4w mJe7343TZQ52lXlMF3to0wVQLFmNTGwIy2c3jjlJjC3bn6fdpmEnrnRkB3JB1jWRugIl Pgpw== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM531LYk/KbSSVLrhpave7ZSJER97cEQ0d7O6kQ8CMzcAsbqC+9VPh NjoJP1vXZHyTG6Jt9ROKop35FybwHLBjRg== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJxGtQ1kNQANzm6pfwJalEPjreYVdwB1zZqzEOGoAEVcWiKvxTHBceI/4lwV0vyo+y27ML3WJA== X-Received: by 2002:a19:4ad8:: with SMTP id x207mr5517433lfa.73.1600105431785; Mon, 14 Sep 2020 10:43:51 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from [192.168.0.104] ([94.229.108.16]) by smtp.googlemail.com with ESMTPSA id m132sm3417423lfa.217.2020.09.14.10.43.50 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Mon, 14 Sep 2020 10:43:50 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: Content-Language: en-US Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2a00:1450:4864:20::133; envelope-from=raaahh@gmail.com; helo=mail-lf1-x133.google.com X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: No matching host in p0f cache. That's all we know. X-Spam_score_int: -14 X-Spam_score: -1.5 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.5 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN=0.248, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.249, NICE_REPLY_A=-0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:255680 Archived-At: On 14.09.2020 06:51, Richard Stallman wrote: > [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] > [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] > [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] > > > > (The bindings for undo ensure it can be typed with just one > > > shift key on all usual terminals.) > > > C-_, one of the two existing bindings for 'undo', has the exact same > > problem. > > Not on a tty. On a tty you can type Ctrl-minus and you get that > character. Interesting. I never would have guessed. > Undo has two 1-key bindings, C-_ for ttys and C-/ for consoles with > the full space of input characters. Each requires just one shift key > on the consoles it is meant for. I see. There is certain elegance in that, but I'd say it's not very discoverable. Especially when you get C-_ by typing Ctrl-/ in xterm, but you need to press Ctrl-- in a tty. And with a yet another behavior in X. Going back to the proposed bindings for 'redo', a certain popular package we have seen mentioned in this discussion uses them (undo-tree). So they have been proven in the field, for many years. Most new users might prefer to see C-z for undo and C-S-z for redo, of course, but I don't think we can do anything about that, other than add a C-S-z binding to cua-mode.