From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Drew Adams Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: RE: Modernize frame-title-format: "%b - GNU Emacs" Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2020 11:08:23 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <0c7eaca2-d09d-4135-8da4-9cbb5c66bee1@default> References: <83y2m01me0.fsf@gnu.org> <83o8mw10b9.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="26951"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: Eli Zaretskii , stefan@marxist.se, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Robert Pluim , Pip Cet Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Thu Aug 27 20:09:02 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1kBMKc-0006si-C3 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; 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envelope-from=drew.adams@oracle.com; helo=userp2120.oracle.com X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: First seen = 2020/08/27 14:08:28 X-ACL-Warn: Detected OS = Linux 3.1-3.10 [fuzzy] X-Spam_score_int: -53 X-Spam_score: -5.4 X-Spam_bar: ----- X-Spam_report: (-5.4 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.959, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:254323 Archived-At: >>> I don't even think it would be acceptable to go with a default >>> setting if it were easy to customize this, and it's not (M-x customize >>> RET frame title RET doesn't work). >=20 > Well, fixing that is a one-liner: > Eli> Though not via Customize, you _can_ customize the title: see the > Eli> variable frame-title-format. > (is there a better custom type than 'sexp here?) I at first had the same reflex. But I think it's probably misguided. The format in question, which is that of `mode-line-format', is pretty complex for Customize. Certainly, it should _not_ just be :type `sexp'. If Customize is to be helpful then the :type should be as specific/accurate as possible, while still covering all possibilities. I don't think Customize is the immediate answer here, at least not by just applying it to vars such as `mode-line-format' and `frame-title-format'. Instead, we should come up with some simpler ways to customize such formats - not just toss these complex variables over to Customize as is. (That would be a mistake, I think.) I, like others, have provided mode-line features. (See `modeline-posn.el', `modeline-char.el', and `modeline-win.el' - on Emacs Wiki.) But I can't imagine any of what those libraries offer as being things that most users could do easily (e.g., via Customize). And I imagine that the same thing holds for what others have done with the mode-line. I think the ease-of-use needs to be brainstormed. We should probably come up with a "simple" layer on top of `mode-line-format'. Something that at least lets you do some common, simple things. Something beyond just the existing mode-line variables. I have nothing particular in mind - just the question and the feeling that something could be done. `mode-line-format' is a bear. It's great, but not simple. Just a thought.