From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.ciao.gmane.io!not-for-mail From: Dmitry Gutov Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: [ELPA] New package: transient Date: Sun, 3 May 2020 19:23:55 +0300 Message-ID: <0a13f7e1-61c7-1e78-22bc-a27c15c269e7@yandex.ru> References: <87368npxw4.fsf@bernoul.li> <87v9ljo5d0.fsf@bernoul.li> <87ftcnxu5m.fsf@bernoul.li> <83y2qezlpd.fsf@gnu.org> <83tv12zjx1.fsf@gnu.org> <20200429101755.GF24737@tuxteam.de> <838sicw4do.fsf@gnu.org> <83zhaqu89z.fsf@gnu.org> <83sggiu2p9.fsf@gnu.org> <83r1w2s9wi.fsf@gnu.org> <83v9leqmss.fsf@gnu.org> <83zhapoz63.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="ciao.gmane.io:159.69.161.202"; logging-data="86524"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.7.0 Cc: tomas@tuxteam.de, rms@gnu.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Eli Zaretskii , Stefan Monnier Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sun May 03 18:26:08 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1jVHRQ-000MQC-Mn for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sun, 03 May 2020 18:26:08 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:55630 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jVHRP-0003Qa-PE for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sun, 03 May 2020 12:26:07 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:39196) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jVHPO-0001Nn-1N for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 03 May 2020 12:24:02 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-wm1-x332.google.com ([2a00:1450:4864:20::332]:38070) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jVHPN-0000Fu-2B; Sun, 03 May 2020 12:24:01 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-wm1-x332.google.com with SMTP id g12so6001958wmh.3; Sun, 03 May 2020 09:24:00 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=sender:subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id:date:user-agent :mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language:content-transfer-encoding; bh=6ANpMQ/GsneyGVEO0BSJduSCcsA1Pr+yGmfEIePIJgk=; b=Q2Eh7R7h9eH0M1NioA1Lqc24n7Oe+1fmue8wAFMQ9fgFk3EI0y3BNQb/P+dGhi+Dah Kl9/ZqEC0z7d3GUVz0iwmlJJ5OeoqFSTrEVu1shoSvHP756N811IIIDBu/cftK2H2gNb nSBbEZVeDC+L969YJxg67vKPHCgKBshIMFO0/8oWiD4gLomBQ6I/qyl8EmiumdwEDFwD 2m/ZFzy/FUIWdBl4x6CLrh4V4FYFg92of4Xssco/284Ffgi9utl3Zlf/8PXK78a+FsKF 5n0SJFlNJ9GhA2/1Ud5GR5Vdf4M6hajPltr7H2AoCd+h97TG3Vn5V7D82U2bwS6V7Lhe bpnA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:sender:subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id :date:user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language :content-transfer-encoding; bh=6ANpMQ/GsneyGVEO0BSJduSCcsA1Pr+yGmfEIePIJgk=; b=A2JmViLKdHDR0+Hbussn/hDFA5neOR5TtVR5FMzy7MQmoVcAnVQ6pnuhnMzBk1p8m/ NoaP5AtSfB4bsjdTqfbc7BuF6EEzRNUaz+1TbqZSIBtEXXFN8ki5lk3Llxkqu3cDk0Ty 2Ny7hdvDnRT0i4Gc7Ufqs88Amw5cjYtQ0uwoYno5kapMeIERoX5221MMLVdHLaNdqCS1 OpJVenRr56G9OL01LCPXtxr1Qzxxwq7crO4ZyqF32YrTtjoZyC62KJicYj/3JFttuGs5 u7xCaq8pXUuMZUTmdyMCoUE4oQLx36Nfg62Obfh2Jn0gSjhLK8dSxyW9LYd8Bv0QVwJh p1pA== X-Gm-Message-State: AGi0PuZHPWY518uyFhZ5X+Rag+RlGrr/rlcWZ3oPtaOfAvXiQDwSWxYn Ur5finm8cVsI6QJOpPoDzG47eu+l X-Google-Smtp-Source: APiQypKVSSaMuD0wpePJ+s0DL0TQyIMSxUGZSX7NjK03uawTBXKN+oI0t7eDT8oXQj2/o/Fptd3HJA== X-Received: by 2002:a1c:3dd6:: with SMTP id k205mr10072017wma.138.1588523038633; Sun, 03 May 2020 09:23:58 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from [192.168.0.3] ([66.205.73.129]) by smtp.googlemail.com with ESMTPSA id a1sm14730058wrn.80.2020.05.03.09.23.56 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Sun, 03 May 2020 09:23:57 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <83zhapoz63.fsf@gnu.org> Content-Language: en-US Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2a00:1450:4864:20::332; envelope-from=raaahh@gmail.com; helo=mail-wm1-x332.google.com X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: No matching host in p0f cache. That's all we know. X-Spam_score_int: -17 X-Spam_score: -1.8 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.8 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN=0.001, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.249, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=_AUTOLEARN X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:248713 Archived-At: On 03.05.2020 17:45, Eli Zaretskii wrote: > Years of using Emacs with its superb documentation and elaborate > facilities to find stuff in that documentation caused me to be more > demanding, to expect better documentation that is easier to access > quickly. I might compromise if something like that is not available > when I'm working with other software, but I certainly don't want to > give that up when I work on Emacs! And I'm astonished to hear that > people don't_want_ the documentation we provide and the help commands > to go with it, and are willing to settle for API completion! The main reason the discussion even went that way is because instead of acknowledging that the user's scenario is valid and the request is reasonable (that code completion and describe-function's completion will work easier and faster if function names are more predictable), you responded with the recommendations to "just use manual". Whereas the manual provides a different workflow and doesn't cover all cases. For instance, it only covers the functions in the core. Maybe not even all of them. Whereas the aforementioned features work uniformly for all functions, no matter where defined or by whom.