From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.ciao.gmane.io!not-for-mail From: Drew Adams Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: RE: Convert some files from outline-mode to org-mode Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2020 08:23:05 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <07fb1041-5dc5-4930-b36b-25f857642614@default> References: <20200426172206.GC18629@ACM> <87y2qhnc9a.fsf@gmail.com> <87imhlwg19.fsf@gmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="ciao.gmane.io:159.69.161.202"; logging-data="129582"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: Alan Mackenzie , Stefan Kangas , Stefan Monnier , Emacs developers To: =?utf-8?B?S8OpdmluIExlIEdvdWd1ZWM=?= Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Mon Apr 27 17:26:09 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1jT5e5-000XcL-7Y for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Mon, 27 Apr 2020 17:26:09 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:51110 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jT5e4-0004W0-0m for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Mon, 27 Apr 2020 11:26:08 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:37412) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jT5dC-0003k4-3A for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 27 Apr 2020 11:25:14 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jT5dB-0000vd-Eb for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 27 Apr 2020 11:25:13 -0400 Original-Received: from aserp2120.oracle.com ([141.146.126.78]:37912) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jT5dA-0000tA-Ti for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 27 Apr 2020 11:25:13 -0400 Original-Received: from pps.filterd (aserp2120.oracle.com [127.0.0.1]) by aserp2120.oracle.com (8.16.0.42/8.16.0.42) with SMTP id 03RFMPWm070043; Mon, 27 Apr 2020 15:25:08 GMT DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=oracle.com; h=mime-version : message-id : date : from : sender : to : cc : subject : references : in-reply-to : content-type : content-transfer-encoding; s=corp-2020-01-29; bh=wWXjIkIHIftq6QGq8SeFxjYXwgwJeRkusUaTkPMaIn8=; b=LGLuBX4OMSRFXgH+kvpWAEZ1VXRxXhxI/VjezI33GIQQOwo95LY/FmAajQuDhFut6+wE mxZPwfzFPc/Ck22RUHanUrhYDeMs8BqNKlf+XDH3Dz9nW5xi0M3nXSnnky/Dkab/FNsR VWZuVKRV7113c2K8XEQlK+av3O/dBFWo1BmP0WNFGGUBAmiinjQfRo2XhWY+bOscavQ5 43A1hw+aYVLl1dJp4XfmLiZ0JBTxYVnfG0L1p3QscQwrbb1hoAIObQyp+nsRudmPfSyE MEK3tkaQhsrVlI1wEyo8qKaYVH9JbEBhJEQGBfx4J9zsODaxX3Z9xU97XDVAtVKgqjPp 0Q== Original-Received: from aserp3030.oracle.com (aserp3030.oracle.com [141.146.126.71]) by aserp2120.oracle.com with ESMTP id 30nucft9en-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 27 Apr 2020 15:25:08 +0000 Original-Received: from pps.filterd (aserp3030.oracle.com [127.0.0.1]) by aserp3030.oracle.com (8.16.0.42/8.16.0.42) with SMTP id 03RFIBed044790; Mon, 27 Apr 2020 15:23:08 GMT Original-Received: from userv0121.oracle.com (userv0121.oracle.com [156.151.31.72]) by aserp3030.oracle.com with ESMTP id 30mxrqgqwg-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 27 Apr 2020 15:23:08 +0000 Original-Received: from abhmp0019.oracle.com (abhmp0019.oracle.com [141.146.116.25]) by userv0121.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.13.8) with ESMTP id 03RFN6ZY003216; Mon, 27 Apr 2020 15:23:06 GMT In-Reply-To: <87imhlwg19.fsf@gmail.com> X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9.1 (1003210) [OL 16.0.4993.0 (x86)] X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=6000 definitions=9604 signatures=668686 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 mlxscore=0 phishscore=0 suspectscore=0 mlxlogscore=968 malwarescore=0 bulkscore=0 spamscore=0 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2003020000 definitions=main-2004270127 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=6000 definitions=9604 signatures=668686 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 clxscore=1015 priorityscore=1501 mlxlogscore=999 impostorscore=0 suspectscore=0 malwarescore=0 lowpriorityscore=0 mlxscore=0 spamscore=0 adultscore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2003020000 definitions=main-2004270127 Received-SPF: pass client-ip=141.146.126.78; envelope-from=drew.adams@oracle.com; helo=aserp2120.oracle.com X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: First seen = 2020/04/27 11:25:10 X-ACL-Warn: Detected OS = Linux 3.x [generic] [fuzzy] X-Received-From: 141.146.126.78 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:247936 Archived-At: > The point being that yes, hopefully Emacs users can find their way to > a menu or a help buffer; but as org-mode shows we can aim for > something slightly more ergonomic. >=20 > If I have to whip these cheatsheets out every time I want to hide a > heading (which I used to do before I finally bound > outline-toggle-children to TAB), I might as well do away with > keybindings and just M-x outline-hide- TAB *squint* (or install > which-key and C-c *squint*). To be clear (but I know you understood), I was saying that menus, `C-h m', etc. mean that one doesn't _need to remember_ all key bindings for a mode. They serve as a quick (yes) reminder. Clearly, if someone uses the same menu item a few times in the same session s?he might start using the keyboard binding for it that's shown for it. It's definitely not that the existence of such help requires one to use it "every time" to carry out a command.