> On Sep 12, 2024, at 21:17, Philip Kaludercic wrote: > > (Friendly reminder: Please don't forget to CC everyone when responding, > otherwise some people might miss your response!) Thanks. I’ll do that. =) >> Good question: The “one page” I’m envisioning is like another default >> splash page with links to the various sections and an easy return >> point (such as M-x newbie). > > My point is just that if it is not a manual, with a table of contents, > an index, etc. then there might not be much of a point in using Info. A > M-x newbie command that populates a help buffer might be just as useful, > and easier to maintain. Okay. I didn’t know there was a difference but sure. (See, not a dev. Thank you for clearing that up =) ) >> I think some examples would be a good idea. You may not realize this >> but if I throw a (setq ) in the face of a newbie with little >> explanation, we might never see them again. My suggestion would be to >> include some bare-bones configs with lots of comments and what >> everything means, including the comments. > > I guess we are thinking of different kinds of newbies here. That being > said, an experiment I have been thinking about but haven't implemented > yet is a .ini-parser for Emacs that could load a Emacs configuration > from a file like > > --8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8--- > [package avy] > set all-windows all-frames > bind C-z avy-goto-word-1 > > [package auctex] > set TeX-master dwim > hook TeX-language-de-hook site/use-german > rebind RET newline > > [package bash-completion] > (bash-completion-setup) > --8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8--- > > where the common patterns are simplified and made safe (e.g. the "set" > directive wouldn't evaluate) but still remains powerful, as you can > intersperse lisp code. If I ever get around to finishing this -- or > anyone else decides to steal the idea ;) -- then adding this to the core > and loading ~/.emacs.d/init.conf if it exists might be a useful thing to > mention in a newbie manual. Well, since I keep hearing “Emacs is for everyone” and “Free software is for everyone”, I’m imagining some of my friends: people who use their phones and iPads, Tik Tok, iMessage, WhatsApp, and who don’t ever look at a computer unless they have to at work or in class. People like me who didn’t know how to do much of anything other than open a file, write in it, click a few buttons, and send it off in an Email. Those people. Regular people. People who don’t know what a function or a variable is. People who don’t know what a computer language is and think that your use of Emacs makes you a genius. My people. =) You know, “Everyone” that’s left outside of the community. =) >> You have to get a newbie to understand what M-x eww is. “Just RTFM” >> isn’t the same anymore. Veronica just did a video on how “The Manual” >> has changed over the years: >> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4lUiUQOvRHQ (this should be required >> viewing for anyone writing help files today - they even used to >> explain what the space bar is used for.) My point is: Emacs, while >> powerful, while understandable by those with a modicum of time and >> maybe a slight bit of computer experience, is not newbie friendly. I’m >> not aiming to hold the hands of developers who are used to looking up >> functions on the fly; I’m proposing we have a page with sub-pages of >> easily understood material for non-developers and coders. I also am >> not proposing that we “change” Emacs in any way - I love Emacs the way >> it is. It’s just want an instantly available newbie section. It’s not >> a huge ask, right? =) > > I am not disagreeing, I just want to qualify this with my own impression > that a big problem nowadays is that people just don't want to read, no > matter what you write. An indication for this might be that when I > tried out VSCode a few months ago, and I tried to open up a manual to > study the program properly, all I could find was a series of videos with > some light commentary. And I suspect most people don't even watch them? This is true. I’m trying to reach them anyway. =) > -- > Philip Kaludercic on siskin Summer Emacs.