From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eric Ludlam Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Why tree-sitter instead of Semantic? (was Re: CC Mode with font-lock-maximum-decoration 2) Date: Sun, 14 Aug 2022 15:24:35 -0400 Message-ID: <017dcda1-cbff-8afa-0c70-a32224c89b8c@siege-engine.com> References: <83o7wuva9o.fsf@gnu.org> <83mtceupbx.fsf@gnu.org> <83lerxvfnu.fsf@gnu.org> <838rnxvdcq.fsf@gnu.org> <83r11ptksn.fsf@gnu.org> <83a68dti6w.fsf@gnu.org> <874jykzvx9.fsf@yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="28548"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:91.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/91.11.0 Cc: Eli Zaretskii , Alan Mackenzie , emacs-devel To: Po Lu , Lynn Winebarger Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sun Aug 14 21:26:32 2022 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1oNJFo-0007Jf-48 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sun, 14 Aug 2022 21:26:32 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:44264 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1oNJFn-0002j3-81 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sun, 14 Aug 2022 15:26:31 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:54718) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1oNJE1-0001I1-6n for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 14 Aug 2022 15:24:41 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-qt1-x831.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4864:20::831]:35693) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1oNJDz-00031L-Gx; Sun, 14 Aug 2022 15:24:40 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-qt1-x831.google.com with SMTP id h22so4291319qtu.2; Sun, 14 Aug 2022 12:24:38 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=content-transfer-encoding:in-reply-to:references:cc:to :content-language:subject:user-agent:mime-version:date:message-id :from:from:to:cc; bh=v+yjN+MBs2P0SqOoY9kUCZdx07mfumfoOXnbqcbAq28=; b=S6eV9GOJZKvaIRroN3v/KpMe6shLd2p972bR9BrQV3v173HtYcETX2129JWV0TvPeG Mm/0+avXjGOSoWBLGdWuAoOgGYDJs1ZPw9xDPpuovAEKjtn+7hat5pI6d3X/h3eGU2l2 FzQJy8uu9ZRM+UC0ZsZwRDwimQLUYQ5COPOduYQ8c97a0CqMukDxdwbhej4L7SwijIKy NFv0X07+Un/NZCpqa1eDotSF175Reg/Wgjmt9DftnQAgngu5o1d2tZxP1NyZT3E6zQ6c 1kyll4jJXYbhYZ+ShApVsIuX63htUK3Qt7FJBdtTXnBB/eWWUq9pvJulhWtpyNr0OvFy encg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=content-transfer-encoding:in-reply-to:references:cc:to :content-language:subject:user-agent:mime-version:date:message-id :from:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc; bh=v+yjN+MBs2P0SqOoY9kUCZdx07mfumfoOXnbqcbAq28=; b=jXYsO0DKlLUW++HT9XYCpVG3uYZa79GM7AsaV2kkRzdLnl2hhIZ3Ju39HTvVL8jVeg WiO/hocJGCn7Undb1pzU8yTRS0+C4Z8sRXyfXeN4cceaBDc4VsP6yTk72uMAQrAZxIrj jGB2/YyOpdE9ZFBnK1b2O296IvGgh8H8xLY9avrP3NKzO77EvKvvDCzgMhC8hPar+bYv SL9v6CSU1g9YmmVuRdvwukGFh13/uiM7ZO4hj2iUzDmJ1KlRsfYM6S4eAmMvjzXbrO7R dJfpWfN7KeAwtQvI33fFWmDyGjAO8ZNXlTcAtn4q8A7Nm1h9+AVZODgT2SiLozHfa3fu oMJA== X-Gm-Message-State: ACgBeo1VX92d0kQxa2BCO/PiIncFXqxk5Zvblk9WTHxM0J4osm/FmSGs i0UoWA1ptNzq+W9QV0BKu7k= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AA6agR4EtnHTHaj5YvlpAUs4lcDC/pd4SaSsH6xL20RrynWkl+zG+8mqbifKIcDRtqcZeq8HwgDwfQ== X-Received: by 2002:ac8:5b05:0:b0:343:3ce4:c34c with SMTP id m5-20020ac85b05000000b003433ce4c34cmr11811045qtw.233.1660505077509; Sun, 14 Aug 2022 12:24:37 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from [192.168.1.161] (pool-108-20-30-136.bstnma.fios.verizon.net. [108.20.30.136]) by smtp.googlemail.com with ESMTPSA id 190-20020a3703c7000000b006bb2bca5741sm1030023qkd.93.2022.08.14.12.24.35 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Sun, 14 Aug 2022 12:24:36 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-Original-From: Eric Ludlam Content-Language: en-US In-Reply-To: <874jykzvx9.fsf@yahoo.com> Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2607:f8b0:4864:20::831; envelope-from=ericludlam@gmail.com; helo=mail-qt1-x831.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, NICE_REPLY_A=-0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:293465 Archived-At: On 8/9/22 10:14 PM, Po Lu wrote: > Lynn Winebarger writes: > >> I'm curious, though, as to why Semantic/CEDET seems to have been >> superceded by external solutions like tree-sitter or LSP-based >> (non-emacs) servers. One of the draws of Emacs for me is the >> "batteries included" nature of it having Emacs Lisp built in. Is >> there a downside to using Semantic as the basis for improving my >> derived mode that's non-obvious? > > I think Semantic lost intertia after the original author lost interest > in it (or left for unrelated reasons, I don't remember which.) I eventually stopped pushing on CEDET for a few reasons - but a big one was that I don't code professionally anymore, and trying to wrestle the legal paperwork from my company and merges between repositories necessitated by those restrictions was just too troublesome. I was also frequently surprised by how hard it was to get CEDET to 'just work' well enough for everyone to use it as intended, and how often people just jumped over to simpler one-off external tools because the full suite way CEDET works was too heavy a lift. That in turn resulted in not a lot of contributors to help support/improve those workflows. Tools like LSP also became good enough where there was no way I could keep up. I had hoped to pull data from external tools like lsp into the framework CEDET used, but again the simpler one-off tools were too appealing to that audience. Overall, I think that is fine though - having many projects experimenting with different techniques, and having the best solution win is the benefit of free software. Developing CEDET back when it was the only game it town was a good time with many good people helping, and I am glad to have been a part of that, and I'm glad CEDET is still useful in many cases. Eric