From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Dmitry Gutov Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Gitlab Migration Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2021 15:55:30 +0300 Message-ID: <01341bd6-b94b-4f94-1461-405e723142ad@yandex.ru> References: <87h7fcnmq0.fsf@posteo.net> <83tujbqg4j.fsf@gnu.org> <46353190-1190-495f-b15e-22980159b3ab@yandex.ru> <83y28mp0rb.fsf@gnu.org> <51a363db-fde7-791d-cf8d-98ac601d62ee@yandex.ru> <57ca4d78-2339-201d-edce-678c9b003a99@yandex.ru> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="3482"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/78.11.0 Cc: philipk@posteo.net, eliz@gnu.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org, rms@gnu.org, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca To: Daniel Fleischer Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Mon Aug 30 14:57:28 2021 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1mKgqt-0000if-Qj for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Mon, 30 Aug 2021 14:57:27 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:56878 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mKgqs-00005H-Ef for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Mon, 30 Aug 2021 08:57:26 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:57678) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mKgp6-0006rK-SI for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 30 Aug 2021 08:55:36 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-wr1-x42f.google.com ([2a00:1450:4864:20::42f]:37390) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mKgp4-0001Dc-T1; Mon, 30 Aug 2021 08:55:36 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-wr1-x42f.google.com with SMTP id v10so22324291wrd.4; Mon, 30 Aug 2021 05:55:33 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=sender:subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id:date:user-agent :mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language:content-transfer-encoding; bh=H8rV+5W7PcEp5fGe37Ctki7uL5O6Hw37Y690RUvLgSY=; b=Mhs1K9Wx+ZVs16GqxHcbPnw2fUUxgs9eAk3DW74XZdu0uUdZv6K+vT9lTat6AxLeC/ 5iSId3MBGYwXxybEsB5DsLG86dQVhAxhgO6EjUKaJS0DTkEXbBfRDXSIlPb1Ii1qtvb5 5zpbGtowxUX9pXUmnSkeJq2N7toS9oDmKaa8xVc8hWoOa9anf8O6J5tKUlwSoFddncpX DDRLEcyekVHHgQ2SUgCTnpzEoqZkxps5vdBhbGeVmmRZx3CbvlHpzvfEaQX0f7L49ySp H0hGzeJtC5Pntsh57M+PHJx0HD+7CMQZCcoDPNOX+IwiCtbFPqmQLET7N3NxQ6EEL3lT wzTA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:sender:subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id :date:user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language :content-transfer-encoding; bh=H8rV+5W7PcEp5fGe37Ctki7uL5O6Hw37Y690RUvLgSY=; b=mstev17NlKWE/HIiDUQygGYQGVrDpJEhRMim1ENztyr9ENdDoJLTCQ5rPbypR3nGEG uDgwI1IEj8UoyxrW66H9AbvR8g3pIiewww8IPwYf1kw9FALIi0f4FGRW8WDCiX5JZ8RO eal2fS9mwCPKRY5A15sQLP2rpKnXseSPoE0KUHUdErbN4UHoArOvz7xvEgxrS/4WlWSc QWgm4envVAU0vKL7mdcvyvdeV6WfJSmAlE9hhTVcJcSYKKW4OfWLUlqa0cmdT4QILPDw kdes8vsbFBttAIV64HZT1HduG4/MwNOnntsH8DUTc54RxO6SfAaj+0xfN6HsPpzEGkYq BsPA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM532jDqYbQgjcG18u7IWTcGu+SbkIrLQwUJhCe86UVVSK56q1RDZc XYtgt6rNzHiyPlXE4KVgxsiNMcWBW3o= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJwTC4ewU+t6hzq1v8U8ag9+2TPNCmZidIQ7v3FoBZJUhjQ7YrRK3Id98+SLpopEyMn7yudUlw== X-Received: by 2002:a5d:69c8:: with SMTP id s8mr24710072wrw.324.1630328132895; Mon, 30 Aug 2021 05:55:32 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from [192.168.0.6] ([46.251.119.176]) by smtp.googlemail.com with ESMTPSA id a5sm4329087wmm.44.2021.08.30.05.55.31 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Mon, 30 Aug 2021 05:55:32 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: Content-Language: en-US Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2a00:1450:4864:20::42f; envelope-from=raaahh@gmail.com; helo=mail-wr1-x42f.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -23 X-Spam_score: -2.4 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.4 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN=0.249, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.249, NICE_REPLY_A=-0.932, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:273487 Archived-At: On 30.08.2021 15:48, Daniel Fleischer wrote: > Dmitry Gutov [2021-08-30 Mon 15:20] wrote: > >> Yes, as is now apparent from multiple arguments around the subject, appealing to newcomers (and/or trying to adopt >> contemporary usability practices) is of much lesser priority than, say, making sure that each key binding that has been >> with us for a number of years, is left unchanged for ever. We hate to risk inconveniencing existing users. > Key bindings are important! The question is, important for what. And whether existing muscle memory can be sacrificed for better usability. And/or for reduced suffering in newcomers.