From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Drew Adams" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel,gmane.emacs.gnus.general Subject: RE: smtp crap Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2011 22:38:10 -0700 Message-ID: <00B07CB1F67A4C19A8EE31812785EAB6@us.oracle.com> References: <8739f4kzp3.fsf@catnip.gol.com> <87ipo0p1bc.fsf@stupidchicken.com><58C87CB9F44943A7BBE78F2D6B62A850@us.oracle.com><8762jwfjsj.fsf@catnip.gol.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1318311512 16055 80.91.229.12 (11 Oct 2011 05:38:32 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2011 05:38:32 +0000 (UTC) Cc: 'Chong Yidong' , ding@gnus.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: "'Stefan Monnier'" , "'Miles Bader'" Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue Oct 11 07:38:27 2011 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([140.186.70.17]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1RDV2p-0003hL-Nq for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 11 Oct 2011 07:38:27 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:44522 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1RDV2p-0004ai-9d for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 11 Oct 2011 01:38:27 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([140.186.70.92]:54416) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1RDV2n-0004ac-IU for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 11 Oct 2011 01:38:26 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1RDV2m-0006HF-LF for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 11 Oct 2011 01:38:25 -0400 Original-Received: from rcsinet15.oracle.com ([148.87.113.117]:33230) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1RDV2k-0006H0-U3; Tue, 11 Oct 2011 01:38:23 -0400 Original-Received: from ucsinet23.oracle.com (ucsinet23.oracle.com [156.151.31.71]) by rcsinet15.oracle.com (Switch-3.4.4/Switch-3.4.4) with ESMTP id p9B5cJtM026211 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 11 Oct 2011 05:38:21 GMT Original-Received: from acsmt356.oracle.com (acsmt356.oracle.com [141.146.40.156]) by ucsinet23.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id p9B5cIjC025609 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 11 Oct 2011 05:38:18 GMT Original-Received: from abhmt108.oracle.com (abhmt108.oracle.com [141.146.116.60]) by acsmt356.oracle.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id p9B5cCWD027368; Tue, 11 Oct 2011 00:38:12 -0500 Original-Received: from dradamslap1 (/10.159.50.234) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Mon, 10 Oct 2011 22:38:12 -0700 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 In-Reply-To: Thread-Index: AcyHxwDihKzX4uHDSguvcQxO5aqH5QADWrYA X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.6109 X-Source-IP: ucsinet23.oracle.com [156.151.31.71] X-CT-RefId: str=0001.0A090205.4E93D64D.0158,ss=1,re=0.000,fgs=0 X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 1) X-Received-From: 148.87.113.117 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:144868 gmane.emacs.gnus.general:80285 Archived-At: > I'd hope that any user who's not dead-set on using Emacs's smtpmail > support will simply say "use mailclient". So the likelihood of wrong > smtp setup should be rather low. It's not about customizing Emacs email preferences to suit the user, whether s?he is dead-set for or against smtpmail. If a user wants to customize/configure email, then making her jump through hoops and even badly designed question sequences is not a big deal (a bug, but not a big bug). What is bad is forcing this questioning on a user, instead of simply taking her down that garden path _only_ on her request. But even that is not what is most important - don't focus on the customization problem. It's really not the main problem, even if pushed on users. It's about Emacs _bug reporting_, and in particular reporting from `emacs -Q'. We should not be submitting users who want to report bugs to a configuration scenario that interrogates them about email methods. Really, this should be a no-brainer.