From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Drew Adams" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel,gmane.emacs.pretest.bugs Subject: RE: 23.0.60; M-( and M-) should not be bound in ESC map Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2008 09:18:41 -0700 Message-ID: <008d01c89b26$8aacebb0$c2b22382@us.oracle.com> References: <003801c89a85$fcd95ad0$c2b22382@us.oracle.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1207844499 12993 80.91.229.12 (10 Apr 2008 16:21:39 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2008 16:21:39 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-pretest-bug@gnu.org To: , "'Andreas Schwab'" Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Thu Apr 10 18:22:02 2008 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1JjzWp-0002Pp-Jr for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 10 Apr 2008 18:21:35 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1JjzWB-0003Jy-Ov for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 10 Apr 2008 12:20:55 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1JjzVR-0002K6-Ah for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 10 Apr 2008 12:20:09 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1JjzVP-0002HV-P7 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 10 Apr 2008 12:20:08 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1JjzVP-0002H1-IH for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 10 Apr 2008 12:20:07 -0400 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([140.186.70.10]) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1JjzVP-0004KV-9t for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 10 Apr 2008 12:20:07 -0400 Original-Received: from mx10.gnu.org ([199.232.76.166]) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1JjzVP-000365-3J for emacs-pretest-bug@gnu.org; Thu, 10 Apr 2008 12:20:07 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by monty-python.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1JjzVL-0004Iq-0B for emacs-pretest-bug@gnu.org; Thu, 10 Apr 2008 12:20:06 -0400 Original-Received: from agminet01.oracle.com ([141.146.126.228]) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS-1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1JjzVE-0004Ga-JI; Thu, 10 Apr 2008 12:19:56 -0400 Original-Received: from rgmgw2.us.oracle.com (rgmgw2.us.oracle.com [138.1.186.111]) by agminet01.oracle.com (Switch-3.2.4/Switch-3.1.7) with ESMTP id m3AGJoGu017477; Thu, 10 Apr 2008 11:19:51 -0500 Original-Received: from acsmt350.oracle.com (acsmt350.oracle.com [141.146.40.150]) by rgmgw2.us.oracle.com (Switch-3.2.4/Switch-3.2.4) with ESMTP id m3ABRsxV015109; Thu, 10 Apr 2008 10:19:50 -0600 Original-Received: from inet-141-146-46-1.oracle.com by acsmt350.oracle.com with ESMTP id 3645418231207844320; Thu, 10 Apr 2008 09:18:40 -0700 Original-Received: from dradamslap1 (/130.35.178.194) by bhmail.oracle.com (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Thu, 10 Apr 2008 09:18:39 -0700 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3198 Thread-Index: AcibCirLZEPnLyOTTPqCkynRb3ITeQAErnYw X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAQAAAAI= X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAQAAAAI= X-Whitelist: TRUE X-Whitelist: TRUE X-detected-kernel: by monty-python.gnu.org: Linux 2.4-2.6 X-detected-kernel: by monty-python.gnu.org: Linux 2.6, seldom 2.4 (older, 4) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:94882 gmane.emacs.pretest.bugs:21962 Archived-At: > > This is is not a good idea. `insert-parentheses' and > > `move-past-close-and-reindent' should be bound only for > > programming modes for which they actually make sense. > > Inserting pairs of parentheses makes sense pretty much everywhere. > > Yes. And error messages that a beginner doesn't totally understand > can happen in many ways in Emacs. I think this change is too much > just to eliminate a few cases of them. > > Leaving well enough alone seems best to me. Even leaving aside the opaque error messages and the waste of useful global keys, this makes no more sense for non-programming modes than would `blink-matching-paren' or `show-paren-mode'. Should we add those everywhere, as well? And we have `insert-pair' as well. If inserting matched parens is so appropriate for text mode and all other modes, then surely the same must be true for {}, <>, [], "", '', and `'. The same logic says we should bind `insert-pair'. Matching "" is at least as important as matching (). Don't argue only to support personal habits. If your argument makes sense, then it makes sense also for `insert-pair', `blink-matching-paren', and `show-paren-mode'. It's no accident that this is defined in lisp.el. It's appropriate for programming modes with nested parens. > People are proposing lots of changes in long-settled aspects of Emacs, > and I think this is a bad habit. Each such proposal leads to a long > discussion, which takes up lots of people's time. And usually it > doesn't achieve anything. You're opening a general discussion not specific to this bug report. Just because a decision was made long ago does not mean that it is the right decision now or even that it was the right decision then. I filed a bug report. The discussion is yours. Do as you like about the report.