From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Drew Adams" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: RE: customizing key definitions with Customize Date: Fri, 16 May 2008 16:58:58 -0700 Message-ID: <007501c8b7b0$ceb03280$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com> References: <000301c8b39e$ded16a50$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com><003701c8b438$9d6e9f20$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com> <005b01c8b582$a65874d0$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com> <002601c8b645$3c715c80$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com> <004b01c8b72b$2e4c2cc0$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1210982368 14954 80.91.229.12 (16 May 2008 23:59:28 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 16 May 2008 23:59:28 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sat May 17 02:00:05 2008 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1Jx9qC-0002rj-Qw for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 17 May 2008 02:00:01 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:55443 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Jx9pT-0001ib-52 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 16 May 2008 19:59:15 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1Jx9pN-0001hc-KG for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 16 May 2008 19:59:09 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1Jx9pM-0001gw-2n for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 16 May 2008 19:59:09 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=33580 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Jx9pL-0001gp-PP for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 16 May 2008 19:59:07 -0400 Original-Received: from agminet01.oracle.com ([141.146.126.228]:24810) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS-1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1Jx9pE-000818-M4; Fri, 16 May 2008 19:59:01 -0400 Original-Received: from rgmgw2.us.oracle.com (rgmgw2.us.oracle.com [138.1.186.111]) by agminet01.oracle.com (Switch-3.2.4/Switch-3.1.7) with ESMTP id m4GNwv0N004556; Fri, 16 May 2008 18:58:58 -0500 Original-Received: from acsmt350.oracle.com (acsmt350.oracle.com [141.146.40.150]) by rgmgw2.us.oracle.com (Switch-3.2.4/Switch-3.2.4) with ESMTP id m4GNwv4S016598; Fri, 16 May 2008 17:58:57 -0600 Original-Received: from inet-141-146-46-1.oracle.com by acsmt351.oracle.com with ESMTP id 3674853731210982334; Fri, 16 May 2008 16:58:54 -0700 Original-Received: from dradamslap1 (/141.144.65.168) by bhmail.oracle.com (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Fri, 16 May 2008 16:58:54 -0700 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 In-reply-to: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3198 Thread-Index: Aci3fR53NY27ZTZRSvy1b2bQzgqvoQAL82ig X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAQAAAAI= X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAQAAAAI= X-Whitelist: TRUE X-Whitelist: TRUE X-detected-kernel: by monty-python.gnu.org: Linux 2.4-2.6 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:97304 Archived-At: > It would typically be libraries, not users, that would create > customizable keymaps (i.e. options). But please don't get > hung up on where or when the option is created. > > I asked you to show me what it would look like to use this in Lisp > mode, and that is what you showed me. I took you at your word and > commented on what you showed me, and now you say I am "hung up". I didn't say you were hung up. I asked you to please not get hung up on that topic. Probably it would have been better if I had used different words. What I meant by my request was that we postpone that part of the discussion until after we've figured out what the "means of customizing" should be - "how it works in Lisp and what the user experiences in Customize." That's all I meant - not that you are hung up in any way. I was no doubt not clear enough on how I see this - I hope it's clear now what I meant: Libraries (Lisp code) would propose to users what bindings are available to be customized (but that wouldn't stop them from customizing more if they wanted). I sent the option-creation function in the form of a command that provides completion so that people could easily try the code out with different keymaps. A priori, I have nothing for or against letting users also use such a command, but I envisioned the creation of the keymap options being done by Lisp code, typically. > I have said what I think about how to make this a good feature. > Since I will not be the one to implement it, I think I have done > all that I can usefully do. Likewise, I guess. Will anybody be implementing such a feature in Emacs? I think it would be a useful addition. I haven't claimed and I won't claim that the implementation I sent is how things should ultimately be done. I offered it mainly to as a prototype to show what key-definition customization might look like for a user and to explore some of the possible issues. I separated user option and keymap variable for the reasons I gave: (1) leaving open the possibility of not necessarily encouraging customization of all keys in a keymap and (2) the implementation issue that a keymap structure is not immediately one that Customize can use (without changes). Alternatively, Customize could perhaps be made to understand keymaps directly. I hope that some agreement can be reached on what kind of UI and implementation would be most useful, and I hope someone with good Customize knowledge is interested in working on that implementation. This could be a useful feature.