From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Drew Adams" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: RE: faces and face variables Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2008 12:04:51 -0700 Message-ID: <005101c9169c$c5166be0$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com> References: <200809090636.m896acaT011007@sallyv1.ics.uci.edu><18630.36126.116571.102340@tfkp07.physik.uni-erlangen.de><200809091834.m89IYJrt004178@sallyv1.ics.uci.edu><18630.52279.410707.428217@tfkp07.physik.uni-erlangen.de><200809100554.m8A5sbLU020022@sallyv1.ics.uci.edu><18634.41341.360898.898779@tfkp07.physik.uni-erlangen.de><200809121750.m8CHoXar025729@sallyv1.ics.uci.edu><18634.45534.791696.614584@tfkp07.physik.uni-erlangen.de><200809130953.m8D9rEZC011379@sallyv1.ics.uci.edu><18635.58437.271555.722429@tfkp07.physik.uni-erlangen.de><18636.5124.611868.27794@tfkp07.physik.uni-erlangen.de><002c01c915f2$18dc9cf0$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com> <87zlmamzj7.fsf@catnip.gol.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1221419114 28261 80.91.229.12 (14 Sep 2008 19:05:14 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2008 19:05:14 +0000 (UTC) Cc: 'Glenn Morris' , 'Dan Nicolaescu' , emacs-devel@gnu.org, 'Roland Winkler' To: "'Miles Bader'" Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sun Sep 14 21:06:09 2008 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1Kewuz-00032L-HK for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 14 Sep 2008 21:05:57 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:35391 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Kewtz-0006hx-1Z for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 14 Sep 2008 15:04:55 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1Kewtt-0006hs-28 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 14 Sep 2008 15:04:49 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1Kewtr-0006hg-Bg for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 14 Sep 2008 15:04:48 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=51051 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Kewtr-0006hd-6q for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 14 Sep 2008 15:04:47 -0400 Original-Received: from rgminet01.oracle.com ([148.87.113.118]:21075) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS-1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1Kewti-0002Gv-G1; Sun, 14 Sep 2008 15:04:38 -0400 Original-Received: from agmgw2.us.oracle.com (agmgw2.us.oracle.com [152.68.180.213]) by rgminet01.oracle.com (Switch-3.2.4/Switch-3.1.6) with ESMTP id m8EJ4XbO029389; Sun, 14 Sep 2008 13:04:34 -0600 Original-Received: from acsmt701.oracle.com (acsmt701.oracle.com [141.146.40.71]) by agmgw2.us.oracle.com (Switch-3.2.0/Switch-3.2.0) with ESMTP id m8EJ4WAl007427; Sun, 14 Sep 2008 13:04:32 -0600 Original-Received: from dradamslap1 (/24.23.165.218) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Sun, 14 Sep 2008 12:04:32 -0700 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 Thread-Index: AckWl/TRnzHxnTJyTcKt3Hbw5bLpTwAAu9/w X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3350 In-Reply-To: <87zlmamzj7.fsf@catnip.gol.com> X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAQAAAAI= X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAQAAAAI= X-Whitelist: TRUE X-Whitelist: TRUE X-detected-operating-system: by monty-python.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.4-2.6 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:103881 Archived-At: > > But I don't agree that face variables are or should be > > "deprecated" or that all uses of face variables are > > necessarily "fossils". > > 99% of "face variables" in existing code are not used the way you > described, but instead are pointless frippery. I never suggested otherwise. In fact, I said the same thing. And I said clearly that all such fossils should be removed from the existing code. Again: IOW, let's not confuse the effort to remove such fossils from the Emacs code with the idea that no one should ever use face variables. Use them in the (rare) cases where they are useful; don't use them otherwise. > As richard said, there can be cases where a variable > referring to a face is called for -- but there are almost > _always_ considered exceptions to any given rule; that does not > make the rule wrong for the general case. Again, that's just what I said. Please reread. No one has claimed that the rule is "wrong for the general case". And Richard didn't say that, BTW - I did. He merely acknowledged that there might be such cases, and that the particular use case I pointed out is reasonable. The point is that we should not just provide the rule, but also explain it. And to do that in the Elisp manual, not just in some source code comments somewhere.