From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Drew Adams" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: File > Close and File > Save Date: Sun, 23 Mar 2008 15:42:23 -0700 Message-ID: <003b01c88d37$2963c060$0600a8c0@us.oracle.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1206312221 22318 80.91.229.12 (23 Mar 2008 22:43:41 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 23 Mar 2008 22:43:41 +0000 (UTC) To: "'emacs-devel'" Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sun Mar 23 23:44:10 2008 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1JdYvB-0005wr-Nx for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 23 Mar 2008 23:44:10 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1JdYua-0003MF-VZ for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 23 Mar 2008 18:43:32 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1JdYtl-0003Bj-Tq for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 23 Mar 2008 18:42:41 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1JdYti-00038C-Kh for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 23 Mar 2008 18:42:41 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1JdYti-00037x-FV for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 23 Mar 2008 18:42:38 -0400 Original-Received: from rgminet01.oracle.com ([148.87.113.118]) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS-1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1JdYti-0002xy-22 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 23 Mar 2008 18:42:38 -0400 Original-Received: from agmgw2.us.oracle.com (agmgw2.us.oracle.com [152.68.180.213]) by rgminet01.oracle.com (Switch-3.2.4/Switch-3.1.6) with ESMTP id m2NMgZ0g022381 for ; Sun, 23 Mar 2008 16:42:35 -0600 Original-Received: from acsmt350.oracle.com (acsmt350.oracle.com [141.146.40.150]) by agmgw2.us.oracle.com (Switch-3.2.0/Switch-3.2.0) with ESMTP id m2ND1VMS028051 for ; Sun, 23 Mar 2008 16:42:35 -0600 Original-Received: from inet-141-146-46-1.oracle.com by acsmt351.oracle.com with ESMTP id 3622783451206312126; Sun, 23 Mar 2008 15:42:06 -0700 Original-Received: from dradamslap1 (/141.144.88.193) by bhmail.oracle.com (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Sun, 23 Mar 2008 15:42:06 -0700 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 Thread-Index: AciNNykCjvtPZKNESR6VXpIhRTMIyg== X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3198 X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAQAAAAI= X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAQAAAAI= X-Whitelist: TRUE X-Whitelist: TRUE X-detected-kernel: by monty-python.gnu.org: Linux 2.4-2.6 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:93270 Archived-At: 1. The File > Close menu item is unclear. In fact, this is essentially kill-buffer, but you would never guess that. And there is no key binding shown. Menus are one way to learn what commands are available and what keys they are bound to. This item should teach C-x k. The menu item should be renamed and C-x k should be put next to the item. What name should be used? Well, how about `Kill Buffer'? If users can handle names such as Print Buffer (an item in the same menu), then they ought to be able to handle `Kill Buffer'. `Close' is often used for a dialog box or an application, and in the File menu, in particular, it can be confusing (`Close' vs `Exit Emacs'), if not meaningless. `Close Buffer' would be clearer, but AFAICT this is the only place in Emacs, including all of the doc, where we speak of closing, not killing, a buffer. At the very least, if we do use `Close Buffer', the doc should call out the synonym somewhere. The lack of a key reminder here, BTW, is held up in the following essay (which is admittedly misleading and inaccurate in some ways) as a good example of Emacs's UI problems: http://www.surfaceeffect.com/thoughts/emacs. Here's what it says about this: "On the Files menu there is an entry for killing the current buffer (there's a buffer menu too, so why is this entry not on that?). However, I have never seen, on any version of emacs I've ever used, that entry have its key-binding displayed. The Key binding is "C-x k", but you'd never know." 2. In a related vein, we have item `Revert Buffer', but just `Save' and `Save As'. Every other item on the File menu has a verb and object. How about `Save Buffer' and `Save Buffer As', for consistency and clarity?