From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Drew Adams" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: RE: function arguments downcased in help buffers Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2008 07:16:15 -0700 Message-ID: <003901c89f03$472dc7c0$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com> References: <200804150020.m3F0KBMo012038@sallyv1.ics.uci.edu><200804150504.m3F53xoY007750@sallyv1.ics.uci.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1208270533 28308 80.91.229.12 (15 Apr 2008 14:42:13 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2008 14:42:13 +0000 (UTC) Cc: 'Glenn Morris' , emacs-devel@gnu.org To: "'Juanma Barranquero'" , "'Dan Nicolaescu'" Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue Apr 15 16:42:39 2008 connect(): Connection refused Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1Jllzd-0008CZ-7Y for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 15 Apr 2008 16:18:41 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Jllyy-00042v-Mv for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 15 Apr 2008 10:18:00 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1Jllyv-00041l-Dw for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 15 Apr 2008 10:17:57 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1Jllyt-0003yf-LV for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 15 Apr 2008 10:17:56 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Jllyt-0003yR-Bv for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 15 Apr 2008 10:17:55 -0400 Original-Received: from rgminet01.oracle.com ([148.87.113.118]) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS-1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1Jllyn-0007yf-OC; Tue, 15 Apr 2008 10:17:50 -0400 Original-Received: from rgmgw2.us.oracle.com (rgmgw2.us.oracle.com [138.1.186.111]) by rgminet01.oracle.com (Switch-3.2.4/Switch-3.1.6) with ESMTP id m3FEHaRE006984; Tue, 15 Apr 2008 08:17:37 -0600 Original-Received: from acsmt350.oracle.com (acsmt350.oracle.com [141.146.40.150]) by rgmgw2.us.oracle.com (Switch-3.2.4/Switch-3.2.4) with ESMTP id m3FBbB00024327; Tue, 15 Apr 2008 08:17:32 -0600 Original-Received: from inet-141-146-46-1.oracle.com by acsmt350.oracle.com with ESMTP id 3649744011208268979; Tue, 15 Apr 2008 07:16:19 -0700 Original-Received: from dradamslap1 (/141.144.65.149) by bhmail.oracle.com (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Tue, 15 Apr 2008 07:16:19 -0700 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3198 Thread-Index: Acie1fxobWL349ZOR7GuX17XX2tlTwAJ461w X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAQAAAAI= X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAQAAAAI= X-Whitelist: TRUE X-Whitelist: TRUE X-detected-kernel: by monty-python.gnu.org: Linux 2.4-2.6 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:95265 Archived-At: > You're talking as if this was a bug, instead of a feature that was > (long) discussed and consensuated. Please take a look at the mailing > list archive. > > > Am I the only one thinking that downcasing the arguments > > is a misfeature? > > You're the only one to report a problem with it since mid-2004. Rereading the 2004 archive thread "new *Help* argument highlighting" wasn't too reassuring. It didn't seem that there was such a complete consensus as you suggest, with some people, e.g. Stefan, saying that this was a giant waste of time for little, if any, gain: "The current convention is simple and safe, and as far as I can tell it's quite sufficient as well. The changes discussed here seem to be about a new convention which is not simple, and more importantly not safe." Your answer to Stefan's opinion was that then was not the time to question this feature, presumably since it was late in the 22 release cycle (!), and that it could always be revisited later: "But certainly now is not the time to discuss it. If we decide that more information (structure, highlighting, or whatever) is necessary or helpful in docstrings, we can design the new features on the 22.X timeframe." FWIW, I don't mind the feature. I do think it's good to have a face for this, so that users can customize the behavior. But I think the default of italic doesn't stand out enough, at least in emacs -Q on Windows. IMO, bold italic is better, and italic uppercase (bold or non-bold) is even better. BTW, using Customize to change the face, and then setting it for the current session, changes the text in an existing *Help* buffer immediately (good), _except_ when you change to the default face by removing all checkmarks in Customize. In that case, you need to use the help command again (e.g. C-h f) in order to get the uppercase. No big deal, but a slight inconsistency.