From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: main.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Lennart Borgman" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Emacs Installer for MS Windows Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 18:09:17 +0200 Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Message-ID: <002701c48b87$0f0c32c0$0200a8c0@sedrcw11488> References: <001401c478de$908a92d0$0200a8c0@sedrcw11488> <1091508072.20683.201576204@webmail.messagingengine.com> <4111491A.4090601@runestig.com> <4111D8D4.1040506@runestig.com> <1091693906.8538.201741376@webmail.messagingengine.com> <001d01c47afa$c1f5f170$0200a8c0@sedrcw11488> <003e01c48946$a8ebfad0$0200a8c0@sedrcw11488> <011201c48a06$469eb6e0$0200a8c0@sedrcw11488> <016f01c48a10$f6081090$0200a8c0@sedrcw11488> <001801c48a37$995d27f0$0200a8c0@sedrcw11488> <01c48a5a$Blat.v2.2.2$412bdd60@zahav.net.il> <412DFF1B.9010603@ig.com.br> NNTP-Posting-Host: deer.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1093537999 31903 80.91.224.253 (26 Aug 2004 16:33:19 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 16:33:19 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Thu Aug 26 18:33:02 2004 Return-path: Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by deer.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1C0MoF-0005Lb-00 for ; Thu, 26 Aug 2004 18:09:08 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1C0Mss-0005P1-Gf for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 26 Aug 2004 12:13:54 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.33) id 1C0Msj-0005Ny-Rm for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 26 Aug 2004 12:13:45 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.33) id 1C0Msh-0005NS-Sr for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 26 Aug 2004 12:13:45 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1C0Msh-0005NP-Fj for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 26 Aug 2004 12:13:43 -0400 Original-Received: from [81.228.11.108] (helo=av1-2-sn1.fre.skanova.net) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1C0Mnr-0005ng-1e; Thu, 26 Aug 2004 12:08:43 -0400 Original-Received: by av1-2-sn1.fre.skanova.net (Postfix, from userid 502) id 3ABDF37E51; Thu, 26 Aug 2004 18:08:42 +0200 (CEST) Original-Received: from smtp3-2-sn1.fre.skanova.net (smtp3-2-sn1.fre.skanova.net [81.228.11.164]) by av1-2-sn1.fre.skanova.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2A42C37E4C; Thu, 26 Aug 2004 18:08:42 +0200 (CEST) Original-Received: from sedrcw11488 (t2o58p37.telia.com [62.20.165.37]) by smtp3-2-sn1.fre.skanova.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 8524F37E45; Thu, 26 Aug 2004 18:08:39 +0200 (CEST) Original-To: "Vinicius Jose Latorre" , "Eli Zaretskii" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: main.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:26524 X-Report-Spam: http://spam.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.devel:26524 Excuse me for the length of this mail. I just want to be clear because of the risk of confusion here. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Vinicius Jose Latorre" > > >From: "Lennart Borgman" > > >> Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 02:06:10 +0200 > > >> > > >> I agree that the packaging and user-preferences basically should be > > >> separated. But it is also important to make a more easy road to > > >> emacs for an ms windows user. > > > > Please don't do that: a freshly installed Emacs on Windows should > > behave the same as on Unix. Anything else calls for problems and > > misunderstandings when peopel report bugs. > > > > I completely agree with Stefan: anything that doesn't work out of the > > box on Windows is a bug that should be solved in the core > > distribution, not in add-on packages. > > I also completely agree with Eli and Stefan. I believe there are two different problems here. One is when something does not work or does not work as expected. The second is when Emacs behaves in a way that is unexpected to an MS Windows user. In this case I mostly think about key bindings. In the first case I agree of course. No problem at all. In the second case I am a little bit more doubtful. However I believe that Stefan's suggestion to "have an installation option to install a "vanilla Emacs" or "Emacs with w32 tweaks"" is the best. I understand the concern about the bug reports but I hope that it can be solved by clearly stating that some things in Emacs are changed if "w32 tweaks" are choosen. Anyway is not this a normal problem with bug reports for Emacs? ... > > >> windows printing setup. I wrote it simply because I had trouble > printing to > > >> the network printers at my job from Emacs. It can print in two ways: > > >> a) Through Notepad using just "notepad.exe /p" > > >> b) Through Internet Explorer. This uses htmlize.el to color the > printout. > > > > > > This is IMHO ridiculous: we should not use these tools to print, we > > should instead add the code to Emacs to do whatever they do to find > > the default printer. Ghostscript does that, and Ghostscript is free > > software, so someone should be able to look in its code and find the > > trick. > > Indeed, Emacs already has code in Emacs Lisp to deal with this, the packages > are: > > lpr.el --- print Emacs buffer on line printer > Copyright (C) 1985, 1988, 1992, 1994, 2001, 2003 > Free Software Foundation, Inc. > > ps-print.el --- print text from the buffer as PostScript > Copyright (C) 1993, 1994, 1995, 1996, 1997, 1998, 1999, 2000, 2001, 2002, > 2003, 2004 Free Software Foundation, Inc. > > printing.el --- printing utilities > Copyright (C) 2000, 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004 > Free Software Foundation, Inc. I am glad for the clarification, but I still see some confusion here. Please correct me if I am wrong. As far as I know the tools above does not honor the setting of the default printer in ms windows. That is simply because this option is not available in the current Emacs release (but it will be in the next). When this is available there is of course no reason to use notepad.exe for printing ;-) However since I have never been able to use any of the above I still wonder about colored printouts. I surely want colored printouts on my default ms windows printer. Will they allow this? I do not care whether it is a PostScript printer or not. I just want the printout. The solution I suggested is indeed far from an optimal solution but it gives me the colored printout. - Lennart