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From: "Drew Adams" <drew.adams@oracle.com>
To: "'paul r'" <paul.r.ml@gmail.com>
Cc: 'Alan Mackenzie' <acm@muc.de>,
	'Chong Yidong' <cyd@stupidchicken.com>,
	'Stefan Monnier' <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca>,
	emacs-devel@gnu.org
Subject: RE: Transient Mark Mode on by default
Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2008 14:23:51 -0700	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <002301c88df5$5b61d020$c2b22382@us.oracle.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <e30f0f320803241357m5e8b08b0sd6a0823d74d372b2@mail.gmail.com>

> > > Emacs is fully customizable, but only advanced users *really can*
> > > customize.
> >
> > If that is true, then we need to improve the customization 
> > process. It is OK for some customizing to be only for
> > advanced users, but it is not good for all
> > customizing to be only for advanced users.
> >
> > Can you point out some specific customization problems for 
> > a beginner (in a new
> > thread?) The first step to fixing them is to identify them.
> 
> Most average developpers I know will simply never tweak any of the
> piece of software they use. You are all very smart here, so I'm sure
> you are not concerned at all, but really I think a lot of people are.
> Some developpers I know will start to tweak their tools after many
> monthes of happy usage with default settings.
> Almost none of them will start to tweak it *before* really using it.
> 
> I think emacs customization process is already fairly good. But many
> beginners will simply give up *before* even discovering M-x customize
> ... sad, but true at least for people I know.

In that case, what you meant was not that "only advanced users *really can*
customize" but that "only advanced users *will try to* customize". That is a big
difference.

And I doubt that it is true. Emacs is an "extensible" editor, and sooner or
later users discover this and take advantage of it. Some new users might take
longer to discover that, but I doubt that *only advanced* users customize at
all.

But yes, if a newbie Emacs user is in the habit of *never* changing app
preferences, then s?he might need to discover that Emacs is especially
customizable, and that s?he really might want to customize it in some ways.






  parent reply	other threads:[~2008-03-24 21:23 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 152+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2008-03-23 23:00 Transient Mark Mode on by default Chong Yidong
2008-03-24 10:15 ` Tassilo Horn
2008-03-24 11:55 ` Alan Mackenzie
2008-03-24 13:06   ` Juanma Barranquero
2008-03-24 13:28   ` Tassilo Horn
2008-03-24 13:57   ` Richard Stallman
2008-03-24 15:05   ` Chong Yidong
2008-03-24 15:15     ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
2008-03-24 20:09     ` Alan Mackenzie
2008-03-24 20:32       ` Drew Adams
2008-03-24 21:02         ` Alan Mackenzie
2008-03-25 18:31           ` Richard Stallman
2008-03-30 19:19             ` M Jared Finder
2008-03-30 19:34               ` Peter Danenberg
2008-03-30 19:42               ` paul r
2008-03-30 19:47                 ` David Kastrup
2008-03-30 20:24                   ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
2008-03-30 20:29                     ` David Kastrup
2008-03-30 20:37                       ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
2008-03-31  3:10                       ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2008-03-31  7:48                         ` David Kastrup
2008-03-31  9:42                           ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2008-03-31  9:18                         ` Jason Rumney
2008-03-30 21:51                   ` Mike Mattie
2008-03-30 22:16                   ` M Jared Finder
2008-03-31  7:46                     ` David Kastrup
2008-03-31  8:00                       ` M Jared Finder
2008-03-31  8:07                         ` David Kastrup
2008-03-30 19:45               ` David Kastrup
2008-03-30 20:29                 ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
2008-03-30 22:42                 ` Thomas Lord
2008-03-30 23:11                   ` Thomas Lord
2008-03-30 23:50               ` William Xu
2008-03-31  3:23                 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2008-03-31  3:36                   ` William Xu
2008-03-31 16:25               ` Richard Stallman
2008-03-31 18:08                 ` Thomas Lord
2008-04-01  0:20                   ` Kim F. Storm
2008-04-01  0:40                     ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
2008-04-01  1:24                     ` Thomas Lord
2008-04-01  1:26                     ` Stefan Monnier
2008-04-01  6:14                       ` David Kastrup
2008-04-01 21:34                         ` Chong Yidong
2008-04-02 13:53                           ` Kim F. Storm
2008-04-02 16:27                             ` Chong Yidong
2008-04-02 17:34                             ` Richard Stallman
2008-04-02 18:05                               ` Drew Adams
2008-04-02 22:07                                 ` Richard Stallman
2008-04-02 20:27                               ` Chong Yidong
2008-04-02 21:29                                 ` Kim F. Storm
2008-04-06 10:09                           ` cua-selection-mode by default (was: Transient Mark Mode on by default) David Kastrup
2008-04-01 21:04                       ` Transient Mark Mode on by default Richard Stallman
2008-04-01 21:05                     ` Richard Stallman
2008-04-01 21:53                       ` Thomas Lord
2008-04-02  7:45                         ` Thomas Lord
2008-03-24 22:34         ` Drew Adams
2008-03-25  1:45       ` Bastien
2008-03-25  1:41     ` Bastien
2008-03-24 17:28   ` Stefan Monnier
2008-03-24 19:54     ` paul r
2008-03-24 20:36       ` Drew Adams
2008-03-24 20:57         ` paul r
2008-03-24 21:04           ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
2008-03-24 21:42             ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
2008-03-24 21:23           ` Drew Adams [this message]
2008-03-29  9:18             ` Jari Aalto
2008-03-24 22:28           ` Sascha Wilde
2008-03-24 23:01             ` Mike Mattie
2008-03-24 23:11             ` paul r
2008-03-24 23:34               ` Mike Mattie
2008-03-24 23:44                 ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
2008-03-24 23:57                 ` paul r
2008-03-25  1:54       ` Bastien
2008-03-25 11:25         ` paul r
2008-03-25 23:49           ` Bastien
2008-03-26  8:49             ` paul r
2008-03-24 22:15     ` Honoring traditional defaults [was: Transient Mark Mode on by default] Stephen J. Turnbull
2008-03-24 22:47       ` Honoring traditional defaults [was: Transient Mark Mode on bydefault] Drew Adams
2008-03-24 23:29         ` paul r
2008-03-24 23:33           ` Drew Adams
2008-03-25  7:37           ` Mathias Dahl
2008-03-25  2:06         ` Honoring traditional defaults Bastien
2008-03-25  2:23           ` Bastien
2008-03-25  3:00           ` Mike Mattie
2008-03-25  5:23         ` Honoring traditional defaults [was: Transient Mark Mode on bydefault] Stephen J. Turnbull
2008-03-25  7:21           ` Honoring traditional defaults [was: Transient Mark Mode onbydefault] Drew Adams
2008-03-25 19:36             ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2008-03-25 21:38         ` Honoring traditional defaults - how to do it. [was: Transient Mark Mode on bydefault] Alan Mackenzie
2008-03-25 21:42           ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
2008-03-25 22:26           ` Honoring traditional defaults - how to do it. [was: Transient MarkMode " Drew Adams
2008-03-25 23:53             ` Alan Mackenzie
2008-03-26  1:49               ` Mathias Dahl
2008-03-25 22:28           ` Honoring traditional defaults - how to do it. [was: Transient Mark Mode " paul r
2008-03-25 23:31             ` Alan Mackenzie
2008-03-31 16:24             ` Richard Stallman
2008-03-31 21:12               ` Alan Mackenzie
2008-04-02  2:53                 ` Richard Stallman
2008-04-02 11:15                   ` Alan Mackenzie
2008-03-31 22:06               ` Mike Mattie
2008-03-24 23:22       ` Honoring traditional defaults Sascha Wilde
2008-03-24 23:38         ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
2008-03-25 12:23           ` Sascha Wilde
2008-03-25  5:17         ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2008-03-25  0:12       ` Honoring traditional defaults [was: Transient Mark Mode on by default] Lennart Borgman (gmail)
2008-03-25 20:53       ` Alan Mackenzie
2008-03-25 21:00         ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
2008-03-26  1:55         ` Mike Mattie
2008-03-26  7:01           ` Transient Mark Mode on by default Drew Adams
2008-03-26  6:54         ` Honoring traditional defaults [was: Transient Mark Mode on by default] Stephen J. Turnbull
2008-03-29  9:52       ` Jari Aalto
2008-03-24 18:40   ` Transient Mark Mode on by default Sascha Wilde
2008-03-24 19:09     ` Chong Yidong
2008-03-24 20:16       ` Sascha Wilde
2008-03-24 20:40         ` paul r
2008-03-24 20:55           ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
2008-03-25  3:21           ` Evans Winner
2008-03-24 20:46         ` Drew Adams
2008-03-24 21:47       ` Alan Mackenzie
2008-03-25  0:29         ` Chong Yidong
2008-03-25  0:38           ` Chong Yidong
2008-03-25  8:16           ` Mathias Dahl
2008-03-24 22:27       ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2008-03-25  0:07         ` Chong Yidong
2008-03-25  1:50       ` Richard Stallman
2008-03-25  4:06         ` Stefan Monnier
2008-03-25  7:07           ` Drew Adams
2008-03-25  7:23             ` Drew Adams
2008-03-25 13:24               ` Chong Yidong
2008-03-25 13:36             ` Stefan Monnier
2008-03-25 14:19               ` Drew Adams
2008-03-26  4:47           ` Richard Stallman
2008-03-27  2:53             ` Chong Yidong
2008-03-27 14:08               ` paul r
2008-03-25  7:14         ` Jan Djärv
2008-03-25 12:37           ` René Kyllingstad
2008-03-24 22:10     ` Mike Mattie
2008-03-24 23:44       ` Jason Rumney
2008-03-25  0:39         ` Thomas Lord
2008-03-25  1:17           ` Jason Rumney
2008-03-25  3:07             ` Chong Yidong
2008-03-25  7:07               ` Drew Adams
2008-03-25  8:28       ` Mathias Dahl
2008-03-25 21:01         ` Richard Stallman
2008-03-26  0:50           ` Mathias Dahl
2008-03-25  2:12     ` Bastien
2008-03-25  2:50       ` Mike Mattie
2008-03-29  9:01   ` Jari Aalto
2008-03-31 22:48     ` Alan Mackenzie
2008-04-01  0:14       ` Sebastian Rose
2008-04-01  1:09         ` Mike Mattie
2008-04-01  1:16         ` Mike Mattie
  -- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2008-04-01 11:29 Robert J. Chassell

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