From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: main.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Lennart Borgman" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Documentation for custom-file - is not (load custom-file) needed? Date: Tue, 28 Dec 2004 02:06:27 +0100 Message-ID: <001e01c4ec79$7b779910$0200a8c0@sedrcw11488> References: <200412231805.iBNI5Y514318@raven.dms.auburn.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: deer.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1104196181 8941 80.91.229.6 (28 Dec 2004 01:09:41 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 28 Dec 2004 01:09:41 +0000 (UTC) Cc: johnw@gnu.org, rms@gnu.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue Dec 28 02:09:35 2004 Return-path: Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by deer.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1Cj5ri-0003HT-00 for ; Tue, 28 Dec 2004 02:09:34 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1Cj62X-0002qF-RN for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 27 Dec 2004 20:20:45 -0500 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.33) id 1Cj61l-0002p4-Kk for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 27 Dec 2004 20:19:57 -0500 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.33) id 1Cj61k-0002oL-2A for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 27 Dec 2004 20:19:56 -0500 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1Cj61j-0002o0-TN for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 27 Dec 2004 20:19:55 -0500 Original-Received: from [81.228.10.116] (helo=av1-1-sn4.m-sp.skanova.net) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1Cj5p3-00060h-I1; Mon, 27 Dec 2004 20:06:50 -0500 Original-Received: by av1-1-sn4.m-sp.skanova.net (Postfix, from userid 502) id CC26D37EBF; Tue, 28 Dec 2004 02:06:48 +0100 (CET) Original-Received: from smtp2-2-sn4.m-sp.skanova.net (smtp2-2-sn4.m-sp.skanova.net [81.228.10.182]) by av1-1-sn4.m-sp.skanova.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id BC72437E4F; Tue, 28 Dec 2004 02:06:48 +0100 (CET) Original-Received: from sedrcw11488 (t5o58p217.telia.com [195.67.196.217]) by smtp2-2-sn4.m-sp.skanova.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 187BE37E42; Tue, 28 Dec 2004 02:06:46 +0100 (CET) Original-To: "Luc Teirlinck" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: main.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:31499 X-Report-Spam: http://spam.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.devel:31499 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Luc Teirlinck" > Lennart Borgman wrote: > > I think that custom-file should not be saved to "the custom file" > because of the problems we discussed before when renaming or > copying this file. > > If you rename the file, you will have to have to make some additional > changes, whether you customized it through Custom or not. Obviously, > the easiest thing to do is not to rename the file. I do not > understand the problems when copying the file (to have a backup > presumably). I have done so several times. Actually, I have > backup-by-copying set to true, so my custom-files get copied every > time a backup is made. I never noticed a problem. > > Is there any reason to save custom-file? Could it not just be > removed before the actual saving? > > If we would do that, it would be a lot better just to turn the > defcustom into a defvar. I have been hesitating to answer to this because of our long discussion. My main points are: 1) Having "custom-file" saved to custom-set-variables means I can not copy "custom file" to a new location or computer without editing it. Easy to forget since it may be a bit unexpected that you save the file name into the file. Saving a little bit of time for potentially many users is a good thing. That is why I suggest that "custom-file" should not be saved to "the custom file". 2) A GUI interface should be very helpful since most users will not try to read much of the help texts when using it. I think Emacs "custom" is such an interface. That is why I think the user should be noted clearly when (and if) "custom-file" is not saved. As you have pointed out earlier there are advantages with having something like defcustom for changing "custom-file". However it is also clear that the current defcustom is not really what we want. I think that the problems are exactly at the point when "custom-file" is saved and this is probably what we will discuss later. My suggestions are a workaround for the saving problem. Having said this I will try to shut up on this until after release.