From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Drew Adams" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: RE: Tentative diagnosis of TMM's problem. [Re: Enabling TransientMark Mode by default] Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2008 17:44:37 -0800 Message-ID: <000f01c8742b$523c5300$0600a8c0@us.oracle.com> References: <200802151711.m1FHB3Y3008798@sallyv1.ics.uci.edu> <877ih0o9dx.fsf@catnip.gol.com> <20080220200142.GA1979@muc.de> <006e01c8740e$366ebbd0$c2b22382@us.oracle.com> <47BCAA8B.90305@gmail.com> <007201c87412$4e76a1d0$c2b22382@us.oracle.com> <8e24944a0802201709k6ae54cd3y7de87829f167650f@mail.gmail.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1203566760 25068 80.91.229.12 (21 Feb 2008 04:06:00 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2008 04:06:00 +0000 (UTC) Cc: rms@gnu.org, 'Sascha Wilde' , "'Lennart Borgman \(gmail\)'" , emacs-devel@gnu.org, juri@jurta.org, dann@ics.uci.edu, 'Stefan Monnier' , storm@cua.dk, 'Alan Mackenzie' , 'Miles Bader' To: "'David De La Harpe Golden'" Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Thu Feb 21 05:06:22 2008 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1JS2hS-0006wx-AG for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 05:06:22 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1JS2gx-0007sD-7z for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 20 Feb 2008 23:05:51 -0500 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1JS0VG-0004r4-Sx for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 20 Feb 2008 20:45:38 -0500 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1JS0VG-0004qa-4G for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 20 Feb 2008 20:45:38 -0500 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1JS0VG-0004qW-0f for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 20 Feb 2008 20:45:38 -0500 Original-Received: from agminet01.oracle.com ([141.146.126.228]) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS-1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1JS0V8-0003NE-EM; Wed, 20 Feb 2008 20:45:30 -0500 Original-Received: from rgmgw1.us.oracle.com (rgmgw1.us.oracle.com [138.1.186.110]) by agminet01.oracle.com (Switch-3.2.4/Switch-3.1.7) with ESMTP id m1L1jF13011231; Wed, 20 Feb 2008 19:45:15 -0600 Original-Received: from acsmt351.oracle.com (acsmt351.oracle.com [141.146.40.151]) by rgmgw1.us.oracle.com (Switch-3.2.4/Switch-3.2.4) with ESMTP id m1L0qD1g001644; Wed, 20 Feb 2008 18:45:08 -0700 Original-Received: from inet-141-146-46-1.oracle.com by acsmt350.oracle.com with ESMTP id 3583812321203558279; Wed, 20 Feb 2008 17:44:39 -0800 Original-Received: from dradamslap1 (/141.144.81.25) by bhmail.oracle.com (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Wed, 20 Feb 2008 17:44:39 -0800 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 Thread-Index: Ach0JqGrmC2bzk/6TpKFhk+M7OY/XQAAF65g In-Reply-To: <8e24944a0802201709k6ae54cd3y7de87829f167650f@mail.gmail.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3198 X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAQAAAAI= X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAQAAAAI= X-Whitelist: TRUE X-Whitelist: TRUE X-detected-kernel: by monty-python.gnu.org: Linux 2.4-2.6 X-Mailman-Approved-At: Wed, 20 Feb 2008 23:05:27 -0500 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:89776 Archived-At: > > Do C-SPC to set the mark. Then click mouse-1 somewhere > > else. Point has moved away from the mark, but the region is > > not active, so no highlighting. > > > That would still be true for the idea I suggested. The > > region would not be activated just by moving the cursor; > > that's all. That's similar to what happens in other apps, > > AFAIK. > > Okay, those two lines suggest a possible misunderstanding, or you were > just talking loosely - in tmm, C-SPC sets and activates the mark. > mouse-1 clicking (or zero-length drag) just happens to deactivate it. Correct. And the net result is that point has moved away from mark and the region is inactive. > Moving the the cursor after C-SPC doesn't activate the mark in tmm, it > just makes the already-active region become nonzero sized. Correct. And see my follow-up message. Instead of suggesting that point movements not activate the mark (which, as you noted, is speaking loosely), I suggested that C-SPC not activate the mark. With that suggestion, the region would become active only by explicit activation via, e.g., `C-x C-x'. When inactive, Emacs pros can still use the region and the mark (assuming non-nil `mark-even-if-inactive', by default). And Emacs newbies (and some oldbies) can have their highlighted-selection behavior. The premise for this is that the newbies (and oldbies such as myself) don't need to use the active region that comes automatically today from C-SPC + cursor movement. They wouldn't mind hitting `C-x C-x' before doing something that requires the active region.