From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Drew Adams" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: RE: Usability suggestion : completion for M-: Date: Sun, 16 Mar 2008 09:52:28 -0700 Message-ID: <000a01c88786$1ed8ef00$0600a8c0@us.oracle.com> References: <87ejaei4iz.fsf@stupidchicken.com> <87hcf7r7vl.fsf@jurta.org> <003001c886f5$366f4330$0600a8c0@us.oracle.com> <47DC5F1B.8070003@gmail.com> <000601c8873d$7625c240$0600a8c0@us.oracle.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1205686610 19092 80.91.229.12 (16 Mar 2008 16:56:50 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 16 Mar 2008 16:56:50 +0000 (UTC) Cc: 'Juri Linkov' , 'Chong Yidong' , "'Lennart Borgman \(gmail\)'" , 'emacs- devel' To: "'paul r'" Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sun Mar 16 17:57:18 2008 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1JawAf-0002Ep-Ad for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 16 Mar 2008 17:57:17 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1JawA5-00051i-VY for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 16 Mar 2008 12:56:42 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1Jaw6w-0002N1-IF for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 16 Mar 2008 12:53:26 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1Jaw6v-0002Lv-OJ for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 16 Mar 2008 12:53:26 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Jaw6v-0002Lk-Iv for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 16 Mar 2008 12:53:25 -0400 Original-Received: from rgminet01.oracle.com ([148.87.113.118]) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS-1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1Jaw6v-0005Ks-8s for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 16 Mar 2008 12:53:25 -0400 Original-Received: from agmgw1.us.oracle.com (agmgw1.us.oracle.com [152.68.180.212]) by rgminet01.oracle.com (Switch-3.2.4/Switch-3.1.6) with ESMTP id m2GGrJgN001654; Sun, 16 Mar 2008 10:53:19 -0600 Original-Received: from acsmt350.oracle.com (acsmt350.oracle.com [141.146.40.150]) by agmgw1.us.oracle.com (Switch-3.2.0/Switch-3.2.0) with ESMTP id m2GFka3m014224; Sun, 16 Mar 2008 10:53:18 -0600 Original-Received: from inet-141-146-46-1.oracle.com by acsmt351.oracle.com with ESMTP id 3612657071205686335; Sun, 16 Mar 2008 09:52:15 -0700 Original-Received: from dradamslap1 (/141.144.88.54) by bhmail.oracle.com (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Sun, 16 Mar 2008 09:52:15 -0700 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3198 Thread-Index: AciHVTRUqZmlCHd3Sh+UPdFQV7ldCwAJriaw In-Reply-To: X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAQAAAAI= X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAQAAAAI= X-Whitelist: TRUE X-Whitelist: TRUE X-detected-kernel: by monty-python.gnu.org: Linux 2.4-2.6 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:92754 Archived-At: > > I said, "M-TAB or ESC TAB". > > M-TAB is not an option in *most* of recent systems. And, honestly, who > wants to complete with Esc-Tab ? Drew, could you please try to > temporarily use *only* ESC-TAB, and tell us how usable you find it. FYI, I have been using *only* ESC TAB "temporarily" for over 2 decades. I guess I don't see a problem with it (for me), so far. ;-) And as Ralf pointed out, you can use `C-M-i' as a chord alternative. What is so hard about these bindings? On my standard US PC keyboard, there is only one key between ESC and TAB. It's true that C-M-i is a 3-key chord that might require you to stretch a little or use two hands, but is this really a big deal? Is it a big deal for _most_ people, so we should change the default? (Individuals can always rebind keys.) I doubt it, or we would have changed the binding long ago. And I see from Emacs Wiki that you yourself have recently gone to the trouble of, in effect, making TAB TAB complete a symbol (whenever the code is already indented) - "using the second tab key press for what is bound to Alt-Tab". If ESC TAB is so bothersome to you, is TAB TAB really that much better? (Yes, I realize that your TAB TAB is configurable to do alternative things, but that is what it seems to do out of the box.) Why add a third binding for lisp-complete-symbol? Why take away the possibility of using TAB for something more in line with its use for other minibuffer input? And, again, if a different or additional binding is needed for lisp-complete-symbol, that pertains to Lisp modes generally, not specifically to M-:.