From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Drew Adams" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: RE: C-M-TAB stand-in for M-TAB, on MS Windows? Date: Mon, 26 May 2008 16:29:01 -0700 Message-ID: <000801c8bf88$47c9e3d0$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com> References: <007901c8bec5$4179df80$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com><3F8C7B43-05C3-4970-91DA-73152E9286E8@pobox.com> <483AE253.1010208@gmail.com> <000001c8bf4e$ef90aed0$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com> <483AEDA0.1000105@gmail.com> <000201c8bf54$0a312490$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com> <483B27CA.9000102@gmail.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1211844662 23376 80.91.229.12 (26 May 2008 23:31:02 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 26 May 2008 23:31:02 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org, 'John Paul Wallington' To: "'Lennart Borgman \(gmail\)'" Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue May 27 01:31:42 2008 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1K0mAH-0003fG-DJ for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 27 May 2008 01:31:41 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:53031 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1K0m9W-0005Xk-63 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 26 May 2008 19:30:54 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1K0m8n-0005Hg-HL for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 26 May 2008 19:30:09 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1K0m8l-0005HI-SQ for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 26 May 2008 19:30:08 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=53023 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1K0m8l-0005HF-Iz for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 26 May 2008 19:30:07 -0400 Original-Received: from agminet01.oracle.com ([141.146.126.228]:37855) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS-1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1K0m8l-0002kf-6K for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 26 May 2008 19:30:07 -0400 Original-Received: from rgmgw2.us.oracle.com (rgmgw2.us.oracle.com [138.1.186.111]) by agminet01.oracle.com (Switch-3.2.4/Switch-3.1.7) with ESMTP id m4QNU26O020073; Mon, 26 May 2008 18:30:02 -0500 Original-Received: from acsmt351.oracle.com (acsmt351.oracle.com [141.146.40.151]) by rgmgw2.us.oracle.com (Switch-3.2.4/Switch-3.2.4) with ESMTP id m4QMfUW9010304; Mon, 26 May 2008 17:30:01 -0600 Original-Received: from inet-141-146-46-1.oracle.com by acsmt350.oracle.com with ESMTP id 3679996991211844526; Mon, 26 May 2008 16:28:46 -0700 Original-Received: from dradamslap1 (/24.5.171.3) by bhmail.oracle.com (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Mon, 26 May 2008 16:28:46 -0700 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 In-Reply-To: <483B27CA.9000102@gmail.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3198 Thread-Index: Aci/dUdlHGPx3X+wTIen7NS4AS8U7QAEH7Lw X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAQAAAAI= X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAQAAAAI= X-Whitelist: TRUE X-Whitelist: TRUE X-detected-kernel: by monty-python.gnu.org: Linux 2.4-2.6 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:97765 Archived-At: > >>> 2. How about registering M-tab by default? > >> I know some people would hate it. ;-) > > > > Some? I suspect that most would appreciate it, but I might be wrong. > > > > If it's a toss-up, then shouldn't Emacs emphasize Emacs, > > not Windows? As long as there is a way for users to put > > Windows back in control, what's the harm in > > giving Emacs the control by default? > > As you know we have been through this many times before. My > gut feeling is that most users prefer consistency over very > smart key sequences. Of course I do not mean long time Emacs > users then, but potentially new users. Who's to say whose gut feeling is accurate? Whoever polls Emacs users could do so - that could help. And there is no need to exclude either newbies or oldies. It is a general question for all Emacs users on Windows: Do you prefer that M-TAB within Emacs be handled by Emacs or by Windows (as ALT-TAB)? > >>> 3. How about mentioning w32-register-hot-key in the Emacs manual, > >>> and indexing it there? This represents an important FAQ. > >> Maybe because it does not work that good with the Windows keys? > > > > What does that mean? Do you mean the Windows key? Please elaborate. > > MS documents Alt-Tab and the windows keys as special. Don't > ask me for any links now, but I believe I have given such links > earlier (not quite sure). > > To alter those keys you have to use a low level keyboard hook. Such > beasts are app specific and where invented as a reaction to > the critics raised against earlier mechanisms for keyboard control > on w32. (At least that was how I understands it.) I have no idea what you're talking about. This is about _documenting_ `w32-register-hot-key'. Please don't turn it into something else. Whatever you mean by "special" and "alter those keys", it doesn't seem to be about documenting `w32-register-hot-key'. The question is not what MS documents but what Emacs should document. It is not about what Windows should do by default but what Emacs should do by default. It's about Emacs users on Windows. No one is proposing changing the behavior of Windows outside Emacs. > > And why would that mean that it shouldn't be documented? > > Because it does not work consistently without the low level > keyboard hook. What does not work consistently, without what low-level keyboard hook? AFAICT, `w32-register-hot-key' works quite consistently and without jumping through any hoops. I have the feeling you are trying to change this discussion to something other than a question about `w32-register-hot-key'. But I admit that I'm having trouble following.