From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Drew Adams" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: RE: display-buffer cleverness - how to tame? Date: Mon, 4 May 2009 08:49:07 -0700 Message-ID: <000001c9cccf$dc734c10$c2b22382@us.oracle.com> References: <000c01c9cc8b$ba796c50$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com><49FEA973.70705@gmx.at> <002a01c9ccc6$2221c840$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com> <87ws8wkizo.fsf@catnip.gol.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1241452192 8428 80.91.229.12 (4 May 2009 15:49:52 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 4 May 2009 15:49:52 +0000 (UTC) To: "'Miles Bader'" , Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Mon May 04 17:49:43 2009 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1M10Q2-0001cC-IS for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 04 May 2009 17:49:26 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:55628 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1M10Q2-0008UL-3K for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 04 May 2009 11:49:26 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1M10Py-0008UD-21 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 04 May 2009 11:49:22 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1M10Pt-0008SC-Gn for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 04 May 2009 11:49:21 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=60058 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1M10Pt-0008S1-7R for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 04 May 2009 11:49:17 -0400 Original-Received: from rcsinet11.oracle.com ([148.87.113.123]:21178 helo=rgminet11.oracle.com) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS-1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1M10Pp-0004rL-U6; Mon, 04 May 2009 11:49:14 -0400 Original-Received: from acsinet15.oracle.com (acsinet15.oracle.com [141.146.126.227]) by rgminet11.oracle.com (Switch-3.3.1/Switch-3.3.1) with ESMTP id n44FnOEC007367 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 4 May 2009 15:49:25 GMT Original-Received: from abhmt006.oracle.com (abhmt006.oracle.com [141.146.116.15]) by acsinet15.oracle.com (Switch-3.3.1/Switch-3.3.1) with ESMTP id n44FnPlN008521; Mon, 4 May 2009 15:49:26 GMT Original-Received: from dradamslap1 (/130.35.178.194) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Mon, 04 May 2009 08:49:08 -0700 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 In-Reply-To: <87ws8wkizo.fsf@catnip.gol.com> Thread-Index: AcnMymvA+GIrPNbaT2CXQCBDcCchkgAAiPSQ X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3350 X-Source-IP: abhmt006.oracle.com [141.146.116.15] X-Auth-Type: Internal IP X-CT-RefId: str=0001.0A090207.49FF0E75.00B1,ss=1,fgs=0 X-detected-operating-system: by monty-python.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 1) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:110640 Archived-At: > > It's a joke, right? Emacs adding DWIM now means that if > > you want the simple, straightforward behavior of old you > > need to write it yourself? > > If almost nobody actually does, then that's not a problem, right? That's sorry logic. The fact (unproven, BTW) that few people will actually go to that trouble is no proof that almost nobody would appreciate such a result. The fact that few people actually build an energy-efficient car themselves from scratch is hardly proof that no one would appreciate such a car. If the new `display-buffer' approach is so complex that just describing a simple way to get back the old behavior is too difficult (even for the implementor!), then, yes, I think we have a problem. Introduce cleverness, if you must, but please give users a simple way to return to the simple. "Write your own Emacs, if you don't like the new, improved version" is one, knee-jerk response. It's not a very good response, IMO. By a simple way, I mean, for example, just customizing a user option or two - not implementing complex functions. It is merely punting to provide just a function-valued option `do-it-yourself'. When DWIM -> DYI, something is amiss.