From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Drew Adams" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: RE: delete-selection-mode Date: Sun, 20 Apr 2008 23:44:29 -0700 Message-ID: <000001c8a37b$27019860$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com> References: <004a01c8a1a0$7215cdd0$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com> <878wz9btq8.fsf@jurta.org> <85fxthy4qp.fsf@lola.goethe.zz> <87hcdxz9zr.fsf_-_@jurta.org><87ve2cfk9x.fsf@stupidchicken.com> <200804201931.m3KJVO4X008875@sallyv1.ics.uci.edu> <858wz8ux2w.fsf@lola.goethe.zz><480BA779.2080507@gmail.com> <853apguv0s.fsf@lola.goethe.zz><480BAD5C.4090204@gmail.com> <85prskte96.fsf@lola.goethe.zz><480BB8C0.4020303@gmail.com> <85abjnu5ss.fsf@lola.goethe.zz> <480C31B9.6060900@gmail.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1208760373 30878 80.91.229.12 (21 Apr 2008 06:46:13 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2008 06:46:13 +0000 (UTC) Cc: rms@gnu.org, 'Chong Yidong' , emacs-devel@gnu.org, 'Juri Linkov' , 'Dan Nicolaescu' , 'Stefan Monnier' To: "'Lennart Borgman \(gmail\)'" , "'David Kastrup'" Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Mon Apr 21 08:46:47 2008 connect(): Connection refused Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1JnpnP-0002GX-SV for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 21 Apr 2008 08:46:36 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Jnpmk-0007Kh-BT for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 21 Apr 2008 02:45:54 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1Jnpmg-0007KZ-Al for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 21 Apr 2008 02:45:50 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1Jnpmf-0007KL-Er for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 21 Apr 2008 02:45:50 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Jnpmf-0007KI-C6 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 21 Apr 2008 02:45:49 -0400 Original-Received: from mx20.gnu.org ([199.232.41.8]) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS-1.0:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1JnpmV-0003j0-Tm; Mon, 21 Apr 2008 02:45:40 -0400 Original-Received: from rgminet01.oracle.com ([148.87.113.118]) by mx20.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1JnpmV-00018U-0y; Mon, 21 Apr 2008 02:45:39 -0400 Original-Received: from rgmgw1.us.oracle.com (rgmgw1.us.oracle.com [138.1.186.110]) by rgminet01.oracle.com (Switch-3.2.4/Switch-3.1.6) with ESMTP id m3L6jNTM009122; Mon, 21 Apr 2008 00:45:23 -0600 Original-Received: from acsmt351.oracle.com (acsmt351.oracle.com [141.146.40.151]) by rgmgw1.us.oracle.com (Switch-3.2.4/Switch-3.2.4) with ESMTP id m3L6P1X3006771; Mon, 21 Apr 2008 00:45:22 -0600 Original-Received: from inet-141-146-46-1.oracle.com by acsmt350.oracle.com with ESMTP id 3653880651208760249; Sun, 20 Apr 2008 23:44:09 -0700 Original-Received: from dradamslap1 (/141.144.64.98) by bhmail.oracle.com (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Sun, 20 Apr 2008 23:44:08 -0700 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 In-Reply-To: <480C31B9.6060900@gmail.com> Thread-Index: Acijd6S30MRKExfXRTiL1aA7x9PgjQAAOdtA X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3198 X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAQAAAAI= X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAQAAAAI= X-Whitelist: TRUE X-Whitelist: TRUE X-detected-kernel: by mx20.gnu.org: Linux 2.4-2.6 X-detected-kernel: by monty-python.gnu.org: Linux 2.6, seldom 2.4 (older, 4) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:95600 Archived-At: > >> (new) user to deactivate the region. He/she can use the arrow keys > >> without shift. > > > > That does not deactivate a region when transient-mark-mode is used. > > Is that really the case? Then I think it is a mistake. New users will > expect that arrow keys without shift will deactivate the region. and > Don't you think that new users will expect > arrow keys without shift to deactivate the region? Please, people, let's stop proposing to remake t-m mode or delete-selection mode so that they correspond to what non-Emacs users are used to. We have CUA for that. Both t-m mode and delete-selection mode should continue to let you extend the active region using unshifted arrow keys. What I said for delete-selection mode applies also to t-m mode: >> This is what comes, I suppose, of the suggestion that it >> become the default behavior. We end up with proposals to >> shoot out its kneecaps. Delete selection mode is not CUA >> selection or shift selection. It is not exactly what newbies >> are used to, and it shouldn't be made so. Let it be. Apparently, some people who don't use delete-selection mode or t-m mode are freaked out about their being used by default, and are trying to change their turned-on behavior to be more like either their turned-off behavior or the CUA-style behavior that some newbies might expect. So let's forget about using them by default and let them be, so that those who do appreciate them can continue to use them.