From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Drew Adams" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel,gmane.emacs.pretest.bugs Subject: RE: Info-build-node-completions has an extra `*' node Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2008 17:27:14 -0800 Message-ID: <000001c871cd$64e4a6c0$e140908d@us.oracle.com> References: <006901c871b3$f4da48d0$2d58908d@us.oracle.com><006a01c871b5$33b5a260$2d58908d@us.oracle.com><87tzk7godg.fsf@jurta.org><008301c871c1$9f45d5c0$2d58908d@us.oracle.com> <87k5l3cdk0.fsf@jurta.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1203298131 11192 80.91.229.12 (18 Feb 2008 01:28:51 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2008 01:28:51 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-pretest-bug@gnu.org To: "'Juri Linkov'" Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Mon Feb 18 02:29:15 2008 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1JQuoj-0000Cx-6Y for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 18 Feb 2008 02:29:13 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1JQuoE-00062I-KG for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 17 Feb 2008 20:28:42 -0500 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1JQuoB-000628-BT for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 17 Feb 2008 20:28:39 -0500 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1JQuoA-00061q-SK for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 17 Feb 2008 20:28:39 -0500 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1JQuoA-00061m-Hi for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 17 Feb 2008 20:28:38 -0500 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([140.186.70.10]) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1JQuoA-0001Yj-CV for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 17 Feb 2008 20:28:38 -0500 Original-Received: from mail.gnu.org ([199.232.76.166] helo=mx10.gnu.org) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1JQuoA-0004Qo-2e for emacs-pretest-bug@gnu.org; Sun, 17 Feb 2008 20:28:38 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by monty-python.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1JQuo6-0001Xn-PQ for emacs-pretest-bug@gnu.org; Sun, 17 Feb 2008 20:28:37 -0500 Original-Received: from rgminet01.oracle.com ([148.87.113.118]) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS-1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1JQuo6-0001Xb-CO for emacs-pretest-bug@gnu.org; Sun, 17 Feb 2008 20:28:34 -0500 Original-Received: from rgmgw2.us.oracle.com (rgmgw2.us.oracle.com [138.1.186.111]) by rgminet01.oracle.com (Switch-3.2.4/Switch-3.1.6) with ESMTP id m1I1STTn014692; Sun, 17 Feb 2008 18:28:29 -0700 Original-Received: from acsmt350.oracle.com (acsmt350.oracle.com [141.146.40.150]) by rgmgw2.us.oracle.com (Switch-3.2.4/Switch-3.2.4) with ESMTP id m1I0Pgjc008968; Sun, 17 Feb 2008 18:28:29 -0700 Original-Received: from inet-141-146-46-1.oracle.com by acsmt350.oracle.com with ESMTP id 3578799651203298017; Sun, 17 Feb 2008 17:26:57 -0800 Original-Received: from dradamslap1 (/141.144.64.225) by bhmail.oracle.com (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Sun, 17 Feb 2008 17:26:57 -0800 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 In-reply-to: <87k5l3cdk0.fsf@jurta.org> Thread-Index: AchxxbgGJaAQOrO4QX6THuMhKl8GGAABKLgg X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3198 X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAQAAAAI= X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAQAAAAI= X-Whitelist: TRUE X-Whitelist: TRUE X-detected-kernel: by monty-python.gnu.org: Linux 2.4-2.6 X-detected-kernel: by monty-python.gnu.org: Linux 2.6, seldom 2.4 (older, 4) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:89435 gmane.emacs.pretest.bugs:21178 Archived-At: > >> Please read the Info manual at (info "(info) Go to node") > >> that says: > >> > >> The node name `*' specifies the whole file. So you can > >> look at all of the current file by typing `g*' or > >> all of any other file with `g(FILENAME)*'. > > > > I see. Guess I haven't read the Info manual in a long time. Out of > > curiosity, why was this feature added? What is the need > > that it satisfies? > > This feature is from prehistoric times. It was already in > the revision 1.1. Prehistoric? I see that it is in Emacs 21 (which I skipped), but it is not in Emacs 20, whose last revision is also from the 21st century. Hardly pterodactyl-like. Anyway, I still question this feature, regardless of what geological epoque it belongs to. You didn't reply to my question wrt what need this is supposed to satisfy. Why is this useful? > > And why is only `*' written in the mode line as the node > > name, rather than, say, `*** All Nodes ***' or `*** Whole > > Manual ***' (the `***' or something similar indicating that > > this is not just a node name). I'm afraid that `*' > > is not very noticeable in the mode line. There are already > > other `*' there, so you see, for example, `*info* (emacs) *'. > > I guess that's because the name displayed in the mode line > should be the same as provided in the completion for consistency. For consistency, go to node should, well, go to a node, not show all of the manual. ;-) The consistency you describe doesn't help the user, IMO. > > And it is not immediately obvious that the entire manual is > > in fact visible. I thought that it had just revisited the > > current node, until I scrolled a bit and noticed that from > > the node headers that it was widened. > > > > Someone falling into this state by accident might well get > > confused, IMO. And `*' is the first completion candidate > > listed in *Completions*. > > Maybe we should add an explanation text to the completion > candidate like e.g. `* (all nodes)'. And accept also `*' > but don't display it in the completion list. So much for consistency. Anyway, I agree that both the completion candidate and the mode-line indication should be something other than just `*'. And completion with REQUIRE-MATCH = t will cause input of just `* RET' to complete to `* (all nodes)' and exit. > > It might seem cute that `*' is the name for this pseudo-node > > (a wildcard, presumably), but the behavior and meaning are > > not obvious. Why `go to node' would have an alternative > > action of `show all nodes' is not clear to me - > > why associate this behavior with `Info-goto-node'? > > I suppose you'll say that that's what we do for wildcards > > with `find-file'. > > Yes, this looks like wildcards. > > > It's also not obvious how to get out of this > > view-whole-raw-info-file mode, once you fall into the > > black hole. Things like `C-l' and `u' (Node has no Up) > > don't help. > > > > It turns out that using `g' again, and picking some real > > node name this time, will restore Info to its normal self > > (whew!). There might be additional ways to get back to > > normal; I don't know. > > > > But I don't think it is obvious, and I do think it is > > potentially confusing. At the very least, a message > > should inform the user: (a) what has happened, > > and (b) how to get back to normal. > > Displaying something like `all nodes' in the mode line would > inform about what has happened, Not completely. It says nothing about (1) your seeing a raw Info file and (2) node navigational commands no longer working (because the cursor is not considered to be in any node, no matter where it is: Node has no Next, Node has no Up, etc.) IOW, this is only marginally Info node; it is really a different beast. BTW, I discovered another (better) way to get back to normal: `l'. > but I have no idea how it could inform how to get back. A message, at least. Something like "Showing all nodes. Use `l' to return to last node." But first things first. What is the rationale for this? Does it really fulfill a need? If not, let's just get rid of it, to avoid unnecessary confusion.