From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Heime via "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#65348: INITIAL-INPUT in completing-read repeats same entry twice consecutively Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2023 15:43:47 +0000 Message-ID: References: <83edk26wwu.fsf@gnu.org> <837cpu6sp6.fsf@gnu.org> <83msyq54mw.fsf@gnu.org> <6lEyA2hwLwT0gnrhQsH91Us8wQDf0Cj8-hfYtge1iLDBFEsG5Hj_i80te8w4f52fgOS-g9Z908HRkYHlE05wBV9ccB5h1bFjV755l9nvYh0=@protonmail.com> <83y1i93t7x.fsf@gnu.org> Reply-To: Heime Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="1332"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: Eli Zaretskii , "65348@debbugs.gnu.org" <65348@debbugs.gnu.org> To: Drew Adams Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Fri Aug 18 17:45:24 2023 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1qX1f8-0000AN-Po for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Fri, 18 Aug 2023 17:45:22 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qX1ex-0000cJ-5b; Fri, 18 Aug 2023 11:45:11 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qX1eo-0000Tl-E8 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 18 Aug 2023 11:45:03 -0400 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:5::43]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qX1en-0001p0-Ri for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 18 Aug 2023 11:45:02 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qX1eo-0007Vc-1O for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 18 Aug 2023 11:45:02 -0400 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Heime Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2023 15:45:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 65348 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: notabug Original-Received: via spool by 65348-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B65348.169237344428786 (code B ref 65348); Fri, 18 Aug 2023 15:45:01 +0000 Original-Received: (at 65348) by debbugs.gnu.org; 18 Aug 2023 15:44:04 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:48569 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qX1dr-0007UE-Td for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 18 Aug 2023 11:44:04 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-40135.protonmail.ch ([185.70.40.135]:61399) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qX1dp-0007Tc-4K for 65348@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 18 Aug 2023 11:44:02 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=protonmail.com; s=protonmail3; t=1692373434; x=1692632634; bh=z593QC9T1RJrOgCkShk3PCiIbFiJWt4xIAI1Ccuzq+8=; h=Date:To:From:Cc:Subject:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:References: Feedback-ID:From:To:Cc:Date:Subject:Reply-To:Feedback-ID: Message-ID:BIMI-Selector; b=eCukitvpr7GjzsYoXWehI935Hy3n4+f0TnmuEffaAzo/4JsJve7ditRPZ2GtFFFGS wBoHhE8WpYC9pZykrijI9RgBJhtAaBCvfE3Kq/8deBtoQBu5P7+lIAuTIwXEi1seAv NM+uC/TqfWp3wVar4GUcIwrXadj88q8tWN7yJOXTFzJo8jyHV2JydzCYF5lZAfHOlZ ziQKkyc0W93FJu2b0c6EpZRJ2ct6NTGww63rqo2dmQqEnzWh+X9sMLwhQ0GyHF1plY G1neWydq5u2s+p1vFCFzTROdVAUvPxtPUjoRET6gfq+bqLW57rRZPM62/58mnQd+PS 7Q01dN7dfZGMg== In-Reply-To: Feedback-ID: 57735886:user:proton X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.bugs:267770 Archived-At: ------- Original Message ------- On Saturday, August 19th, 2023 at 3:16 AM, Drew Adams wrote: > > > You can have it there. It does work. > >=20 > > But you are designating it as deprecated, which makes > > others think that something awful is going to happen to it. >=20 >=20 > Agreed. Better to not deprecate it and just explain > the pros and the cons. However, Emacs deprecated it > long ago... >=20 > Deprecation shouldn't be used for this kind of > stylistic choice. For that, when those deciding > agree on what's the best style, and they agree that > it's helpful to pass along their suggestion in the > interest of consistency (for example), then it can > be advertised as a stylistic convention. >=20 > IMHO, there was never any call for this to be > branded as "deprecated". I said so at the time, > but other voices prevailed. History. > ___ >=20 >=20 > [FWIW, Icicles considers it not deprecated. The doc > string of `completing-read' in Icicle mode has this: INITIAL-INPUT is con= sidered deprecated by vanilla Emacs, but not by Icicles. If INITIAL-INPUT i= s nil and DEF is non-nil, the user can use` next-history-element' to yank D= EF into the > minibuffer. >=20 > In addition, with Icicles users can choose the > behavior they prefer wrt inserting the DEFAULT > value, showing it in the prompt, and selecting it > if inserted. >=20 > See https://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/Icicles_-_Customization_and_General_T= ips#icicle-default-value. >=20 > ] >=20 > > The introduction of HIST is only making a good > > function quite terrible to use, becoming an > > over-engineering piece of junk to avoid. >=20 > Useless to claim, without saying why you think so. > And you're quite wrong here, FWIW. HIST is your > friend. When using my own function that selects from a collection, I am never=20 interested in the history. Just want it to cycle through the entries, that's all. And the less things I got to type, the better. =20 > [But minibuffer history too can be improved for users: > https://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/Icicles_-_History_Enhancements. > ] >=20 > > > > I find using INITIAL quite useful because the > > > > user sees something filled up. >=20 >=20 > Yes. More importantly, it's there for you to edit. >=20 > As with everything else, inserting it isn't always > a plus or always a minus, and different users can > find it a plus or minus in the same context. >=20 > Callers of `completing-read' can decide whether it > makes sense (they think) to insert. And users > should be able to override the caller's choice. It seems that now I have to know all about the HIST things, the DEF, the over-riding of same value to call some function=20 that I have to write to get the behaviour I was using, etc.=20 =20 > > Having the user yank it from the default to the > > minibuffer is a bother >=20 >=20 > Having it inserted automatically can also be a > bother. Different contexts (different calls to > `completing-read') can call for different behavior, > and different users can, and do, have different > ideas about what behavior is more bothersome. Right. But if someone wants it displayed immediately, have to use M-n becomes a bother. =20