From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Po Lu via "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#66706: [PATCH] Automatic elisp dialect insertion Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2023 08:01:40 +0800 Message-ID: References: <17C83052-7946-45DE-B660-DA7EB82001B0@gmail.com> <83sf61mb54.fsf@gnu.org> <98CD592C-0E82-4795-8168-2B5E597FF7A7@gmail.com> <8334xzlvy9.fsf@gnu.org> <87pm131pq6.fsf@yahoo.com> <87h6mf1k43.fsf@yahoo.com> <87cyx227gx.fsf@yahoo.com> Reply-To: Po Lu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="4126"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Cc: Eli Zaretskii , 66706@debbugs.gnu.org, Mattias =?UTF-8?Q?Engdeg=C3=A5rd?= , stefankangas@gmail.com To: Stefan Monnier Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Thu Oct 26 02:03:00 2023 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1qvnq0-0000pk-7k for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Thu, 26 Oct 2023 02:03:00 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qvnpc-0003ac-1r; Wed, 25 Oct 2023 20:02:36 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qvnpa-0003aT-2g for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 25 Oct 2023 20:02:34 -0400 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:5::43]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qvnpZ-00083c-Pn for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 25 Oct 2023 20:02:33 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qvnq2-0002uY-Ez for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 25 Oct 2023 20:03:02 -0400 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Po Lu Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2023 00:03:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 66706 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: patch Original-Received: via spool by 66706-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B66706.169827856811168 (code B ref 66706); Thu, 26 Oct 2023 00:03:02 +0000 Original-Received: (at 66706) by debbugs.gnu.org; 26 Oct 2023 00:02:48 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:60241 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qvnpo-0002u4-3q for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 25 Oct 2023 20:02:48 -0400 Original-Received: from sonic306-22.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com ([66.163.189.84]:36919) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qvnpm-0002tm-4u for 66706@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 25 Oct 2023 20:02:46 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.com; s=s2048; t=1698278530; bh=QvrKo1ZFpj8ztHYwELvzxCWAx2ne9xPJYuQYZEfm5+s=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:Date:From:Subject:Reply-To; b=AGD7xp3JFe8r1a382izQJPOkVf0T0wIc5Ybk4ZjHCbs6c58xWS/BGm51LCdQlFm+e0EJ20+quC/uIOWRnHLMljdoKtvRv6TvzDHy1OpCjBM3HspfvSHnh37IRxAWMujojQbWAxb0cXEOLsJxd8b37B2tcLz42gIhGiZ7KZLxBfNVb5LamrYinaoilAu6o5VJusMKQJPa7IohJOOfoKcH3JMPIL+DynJo3qgp4m9KJOUrVY7pVPUhdKC15JFqDeJXr8qxWqZhOcNIyrEIXTSfun+/2zRxWCSr0zh3hxJZd57Vdk/9wMXdEEis169o9a07cPbqRwYJv9qP0iJ9zoTW1Q== X-SONIC-DKIM-SIGN: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.com; s=s2048; t=1698278530; bh=a7ThXBsA9y6CYPCCthNPE310rRdJxJDjnMb05qm1I+n=; h=X-Sonic-MF:From:To:Subject:Date:From:Subject; b=XcWXw3AvWTO6iSDvoySP+UrUiwbrRpIQgh5eprDgo3QLcTPfISMgOZlsdt61h02WFF+HzwSZW41HV19bOtHD8+cocUmqK1qa9qbOdoILE+WBzoa02HMgyRV3aviK7uGbZvkr3OAudsyfg1vFbxN3iFRFzHyJx7pAKui6Y3zqfbHyHD1NTknGNowisRbMM2j/HDVjiAY8mhJOrFPzWmQArxxDCG2qExUOVoZ2ndaxbGXvs9YW3XLv+KmX9OJuQr3aHASWoXB0SwGSFOj5aBoAHXa27Rf6Z2txGXijY4gMWtmruczPgWgsfQDg+ia4XqOT+rL7Sg0q1J+R2d08KMGrcA== X-YMail-OSG: zfSCdesVM1l.VxPt1ElWbKgf.4.UoTBXNFT.Si8Mm2vRbWLn.Jg_y6TAIiqGLs. 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Hermes SMTP Server) with ESMTPA ID 98018e941e0c3f79ebc207364d42130f; Thu, 26 Oct 2023 00:02:03 +0000 (UTC) In-Reply-To: (Stefan Monnier's message of "Wed, 25 Oct 2023 10:56:50 -0400") X-Mailer: WebService/1.1.21797 mail.backend.jedi.jws.acl:role.jedi.acl.token.atz.jws.hermes.yahoo X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.bugs:273221 Archived-At: Stefan Monnier writes: >> OK, and why is it such a reply does not suffice? And why would any >> measure short of initializing lexical-binding to t eliminate these >> people, when so many have failed in the past? > > Initializing lexical-binding to t by default is currently not an > option, because it would introduce too much breakage. For this > reason, we need to take smaller steps that will later make this change > possible. As previously mentioned, the law of diminishing returns now applies in full force. The intensity of our measures has grown substantially from merely introducing lexical binding, to converting all our code to use it, displaying a prominent indicator in the mode line, and ultimately generating warnings when dynamically bound code is compiled. The proposed measure ups the ante from wheedling to browbeating, with scarcely any evidence to substantiate the assertion that it will reduce the (already negligible) prevalence of dynamic binding. What's next, duress? Perhaps that will first take the form of a prohibition on dynamically bound packages in ELPA, and gradually toughen thereafter? One genuine step towards enabling lexical binding by default is the revision of the Lisp introduction to describe it. Of course time and again, people here have demonstrated themselves so much more eager for imperiousness towards users than the comparatively bland task of writing. Or perhaps such users of Emacs as those qualified to undertake this writing don't share your fervor for lexical binding. Which can only be a good thing, as it were. > Because it will reduce the occurrence of the case where I copy a chunk > of code which relies on dynbind and then incorrectly execute it in > lexbind mode in `M-:` or ielm. The incidence of such code is low as it stands.